Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum

Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/index.php)
-   Sports (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=57)
-   -   NFL's new safety policy (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37866)

Steelergar 10-20-2010 08:56 PM

NFL's new safety policy
 
What do you guys think of the NFL headquarters changing the way defense is played. Like most people I don't want to see guys get seriously injured when watching a game. However, I love smash mouth, hard hitting, good tackling defense. I enjoy that as much if not more than watching the offense score touchdowns. I have no problem with the NFL going after deliberate hits to the head. But for going after James Harrison for making a smart football move is ridiculous. Whats you take?

LostAbbott 10-20-2010 09:10 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
I don't even know what happened.

Whee 10-20-2010 09:39 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
I hear they will be handing out the flags this weekend. If they don;t arrive in time, then it will be two hand touch on Sunday.

Mugen910 10-20-2010 09:49 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
I say go back to the leather padding and leather helmets and lets see how often guys launch themselves at others.

yourchoice 10-20-2010 10:01 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910 (Post 1031121)
I say go back to the leather padding and leather helmets and lets see how often guys launch themselves at others.

I agree. The equipment allows these guys think they're indestructible. It's a tough thing to balance though.

I love smash mouth football too, but I think something has to be done. Truthfully, I thought Harrison's hits to were both unnecessarily dangerous. One was a blatant helmet to helmet, and on the other he didn't even make an attempt to wrap his arms (they actually expanded outward). Making yourself a head-first missile is dangerous to both the hitter and the hitee. Those hits and the one by the Patriot (forget his name) were worse than the one on DeSean Jackson IMHO.

Steelergar 10-20-2010 10:18 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yourchoice (Post 1031144)
I agree. The equipment allows these guys think they're indestructible. It's a tough thing to balance though.

I love smash mouth football too, but I think something has to be done. Truthfully, I thought Harrison's hits to were both unnecessarily dangerous. One was a blatant helmet to helmet, and on the other he didn't even make an attempt to wrap his arms (they actually expanded outward). Making yourself a head-first missile is dangerous to both the hitter and the hitee. Those hits and the one by the Patriot (forget his name) were worse than the one on DeSean Jackson IMHO.

You gotta watch it at real speed though. Its easy to slow down a replay and say he could of done this. That game was the fastest most explosive I've seen a defense play in a couple of years. That rookie reciever didn't know any better. I saw Harrison Lead with his chest and forearm into the other guys shoulder. The guy got rattled got up and walked off the field. Whats the big deal?

Sauer Grapes 10-20-2010 10:29 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelergar (Post 1031155)
You gotta watch it at real speed though. Its easy to slow down a replay and say he could of done this. That game was the fastest most explosive I've seen a defense play in a couple of years. That rookie reciever didn't know any better. I saw Harrison Lead with his chest and forearm into the other guys shoulder. The guy got rattled got up and walked off the field. Whats the big deal?

I have to disagree. Both of Harrison's were helmet to helmet. I know it's hard to control your aim when things happen so fast, but both of his hits were illegal before the new "safety policy." The one from the patriots was also helmet to helmet.

I do agree that the one on Jackson was a legal, albeit extremely hard, hit. I don't think the guy on the falcons should have been fined. It was a clean hit.

pnoon 10-20-2010 10:35 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910 (Post 1031121)
I say go back to the leather padding and leather helmets and lets see how often guys launch themselves at others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourchoice (Post 1031144)
I agree. The equipment allows these guys think they're indestructible. It's a tough thing to balance though.

I couldn't agree more.
Take a look at rugby. Minimal padding (compared to American football). Much more controlled contact. But still hard hitting. And those motherfokkers are tough.

The NFL these days is more about collision and violent contact. Not to mention the "look at me" showboating. More often you hear "what a hit" as opposed to "what a tackle". Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game. I just think the game has more of a focus on collision than it needs to be.
:2

Steelergar 10-20-2010 10:41 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauer Grapes (Post 1031163)
I have to disagree. Both of Harrison's were helmet to helmet. I know it's hard to control your aim when things happen so fast, but both of his hits were illegal before the new "safety policy." The one from the patriots was also helmet to helmet.

I do agree that the one on Jackson was a legal, albeit extremely hard, hit. I don't think the guy on the falcons should have been fined. It was a clean hit.

There was definately helmet to helmet on the cribbs hit and as soon as it happened I knew it was a dewsy. But both were legal hits. Cribs was not defensless he jumped head foward into a group of guys tackling him. One LB wrapped him up while Harrison went in for a waist high hit, that became a incidental head hit. The reciever hit was a lesson learned for 2 rookies. Neither play was a penalty. Both players walked off the field.

yourchoice 10-21-2010 05:39 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelergar (Post 1031172)
There was definately helmet to helmet on the cribbs hit and as soon as it happened I knew it was a dewsy. But both were legal hits. Cribs was not defensless he jumped head foward into a group of guys tackling him. One LB wrapped him up while Harrison went in for a waist high hit, that became a incidental head hit. The reciever hit was a lesson learned for 2 rookies. Neither play was a penalty. Both players walked off the field.

IMHO, I don't think the fact that the "players walked off the field" should weigh into the decision if a player should be disciplined. Neither should if it was called a penalty. There are plenty of instances in a lot of sports where a call wasn't made on the field, but fines/suspensions are handed down after the fact.

When I learned how to play, there were two key components to tackling, keep your head up and wrap your arms. Harrison did neither on either play (I'm talking about Cribbs and Massaquoi (sp?), don't know that I've seen the hit on whatever rookie you're talking about).

chachee52 10-21-2010 05:53 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
The only problem with starting these fines/suspensions is: Where do they draw the line? Every flag thrown? Because there are some flags that shouldn't be thrown. I want people to be safe, but the NFL doesn't allow the defense to do anything any more. They aren't even allowed to look at the QB any more. it's like the "roughing the kicker" rule. A couple weeks ago they were throwing the flags around in some very questionable calls. So do those defensive players also get fined/suspended for the roughing flag?
Pitterno (from Penn ST) has gone public to say that he think that they should take the face masks off.

massphatness 10-21-2010 06:17 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelergar (Post 1031172)
incidental head hit

My understanding of the rule is that intent plays no role. Helmet to helmet hits are illegal irrespective if the player didn't mean to initiate the contact but "incidentally" did so. These kinds of hits have always been illegal, but the NFL is now going to enforce the rule. The policy is not new. The implementation is all that is changing.

The question for me was articulated very clearly on a sports talk radio show this morning: where do I want to see the players I root for -- on the field or on the sidelines in street clothes?

Volt 10-21-2010 06:21 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
I say suck it up. This isn't a chess match we are watching. These guys get paid more in a year than I'll see in a life time, get out there and earn it. All they need now is to say no contact with the QB and pass out the belts with the flags. I guess the girls field hockey league will take over as the toughest sport in America. YMMV.

Steelergar 10-21-2010 06:56 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by massphatness (Post 1031360)
My understanding of the rule is that intent plays no role. Helmet to helmet hits are illegal irrespective if the player didn't mean to initiate the contact but "incidentally" did so. These kinds of hits have always been illegal, but the NFL is now going to enforce the rule. The policy is not new. The implementation is all that is changing.

The question for me was articulated very clearly on a sports talk radio show this morning: where do I want to see the players I root for -- on the field or on the sidelines in street clothes?

From my understanding earhole hits are legal on running backs because they are not defensless. which is why their is no flag on that play. Cribbs is one of the fastest players in the league. Looking at it again Harrison would of hit Cribbs dead on but Cribbs slowed down and fell foward at the last second. And having a 280lb DE fall on him probably didn't help.

357 10-21-2010 07:02 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
less padding is the way to go, leather helmets, etc. Look at college hockey, they are forced to wear a full cage helmet and the sticks are always up and hitting each other in the face/head. Back in the NHL before helmets were a forced issue, you rarely saw that. Now that helmets are forced and many wear a plexi visor, the same crap is cropping up in the NHL. I think in these cases, less is more. A guy is not going to knowingly sacrifice his own head/life to make a highlight reel on SportsCenter. Even though that is what they are doing, they believe (falsely) that they are invincible.

Parshooter 10-21-2010 07:04 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
What needs to happen is for these defensive players to get rid of the "thug mentality" and get back to basic tackling, with arms and shoulder pads, to the torso. Look back during the days of Butkus and Singletary. Those guys hit just as hard but did it the correct way.
Steelergar, glad you're not looking at this through black/gold colored glasses ;)

replicant_argent 10-21-2010 07:29 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Players are getting bigger, stronger, and faster. Until articulated armored uniforms are de riguer (protecting joints, head, and spinal injuries to a factor multiple times the possible generated force) it will become increasingly more dangerous for players. At some point, these players will reach a finite point of training, conditioning, and ability due to the limitations of the human body. We have not reached it yet, and already it is a very dangerous sport, whether the infractions are intentional or unintentional. As far as the homer argument of "Where would I rather cheer for my favorite player?," at some point it may become "from the DL, the hospital, the wheelchair, or the morgue."

Of course, logically, YMMV, if you are a rabid fan. Nothing wrong with being a rabid fan, and if you want to see gladiatorial style combats (ala' MMA), so be it. But the NFL (and their individual owners, coincidentally) must decide how much they want to gamble by taking steps to protect their multimillion dollar assets. Diminishing returns indeed on that investment are possible, if not expected, as these players "progress" to higher ability.

But what do I know? I'm just an average stupid guy.

Resipsa 10-21-2010 07:41 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910 (Post 1031121)
I say go back to the leather padding and leather helmets and lets see how often guys launch themselves at others.

+1

Too many people launching themselves head first, and leading with their forearms. How exactly does one tackle someone with your head or forearm?

time to get back to the basics where tackling meant hitting low, wrapping up and taking the runners legs away with your arms.

I mean how many times a game do you see a text book tackle where the tackler hits the runner, wraps up, grabs his thighs and lifts him?

Those can be as bone crushing as anything else, if done properly

pnoon 10-21-2010 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parshooter (Post 1031411)
What needs to happen is for these defensive players to get rid of the "thug mentality" and get back to basic tackling, with arms and shoulder pads, to the torso. Look back during the days of Butkus and Singletary. Those guys hit just as hard but did it the correct way.
Steelergar, glad you're not looking at this through black/gold colored glasses ;)

Bravo, Marc.
You hit the nail on the head.
Posted via Mobile Device

replicant_argent 10-21-2010 07:47 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Resipsa (Post 1031447)
+1

Too many people launching themselves head first, and leading with their forearms. How exactly does one tackle someone with your head or forearm?

time to get back to the basics where tackling meant hitting low, wrapping up and taking the runners legs away with your arms.

I mean how many times a game do you see a text book tackle where the tackler hits the runner, wraps up, grabs his thighs and lifts him?

Those can be as bone crushing as anything else, if done properly

B-B-b-but Vic... they have been told for their whole careers that "harder is better" and that they can be big walking ccok on the block if they are the hardest hitting badass out there... You think they could retrain themselves, their egos, and the system that inculcates this attitude to ... uh... play.. er.... better football?

Mugen910 10-21-2010 07:51 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Volt (Post 1031364)
I say suck it up. This isn't a chess match we are watching. These guys get paid more in a year than I'll see in a life time, get out there and earn it. All they need now is to say no contact with the QB and pass out the belts with the flags. I guess the girls field hockey league will take over as the toughest sport in America. YMMV.

No way Mike...I'm all for seeing a guy get a good hit but this is overboard. There are plenty of good hits in rugby with the whole "ohh ahh" factor without people ending their careers. Yes, this is American Style (I'm bigger, badder and stronger) style football but it's about the safety of it all the way down to pop warner. You think it's only the NFL that worries about this? My friend told me when he played football in his teens, all that padding made him feel like he was safe to launch himself at someone else. Kids see NFL players do it and they think they can too.

They make tons of money because the injury is a factor of their career. They go with the "I'm taking what I can now before it's over" frame of mind.

357 10-21-2010 07:57 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by replicant_argent (Post 1031452)
B-B-b-but Vic... they have been told for their whole careers that "harder is better" and that they can be big walking ccok on the block if they are the hardest hitting badass out there... You think they could retrain themselves, their egos, and the system that inculcates this attitude to ... uh... play.. er.... better football?

Getting that highlight hit on SportsCenter might get them a bigger contract. It's all about the benjamins baby :2

replicant_argent 10-21-2010 08:01 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 357 (Post 1031462)
Getting that highlight hit on SportsCenter might get them a bigger contract. It's all about the benjamins baby :2

You are correct, Mike, it is all about the Circle of Ego and Money, no matter the costs.

I propose a new sport, properly televised, advertised, and sponsored, of course, where there are just two types of players, the Clubbees, and the Clubbers. The sport is called Clubbing. You take a large Club, and you swing it at the other dudes head. That is all. Now, imagine the market forces at work, and the incredible salarys you could get for being a prime Clubbee or Clubber.... Aw crap... I forgot about that whole "law of diminishing returns" thing again.. I would make a really crappy pro-Clubber.

icantbejon 10-21-2010 08:12 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pnoon (Post 1031169)
The NFL these days is more about collision and violent contact. Not to mention the "look at me" showboating. More often you hear "what a hit" as opposed to "what a tackle". Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game. I just think the game has more of a focus on collision than it needs to be.
:2

I'm with you on this....the art of the tackle has gone away. Defensive players use themselves as human missiles to blow something up, as opposed to good ole' fashioned breaking down, wrapping up, and taking to the ground. It has so much to do with making a highlight reel now.
That being said, I believe the "business" of football is really driving these rules. The NFL has to pay lifetime healthcare costs to the guys getting all these head injuries, so they see it as cost cutting from my perspective. :2

357 10-21-2010 08:52 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by icantbejon (Post 1031482)
I'm with you on this....the art of the tackle has gone away. Defensive players use themselves as human missiles to blow something up, as opposed to good ole' fashioned breaking down, wrapping up, and taking to the ground. It has so much to do with making a highlight reel now.
That being said, I believe the "business" of football is really driving these rules. The NFL has to pay lifetime healthcare costs to the guys getting all these head injuries, so they see it as cost cutting from my perspective. :2

NFL has a problem. They market these big hits. They use it to promote their business, and now they levy $75,000 fines for them to the players who do it. It's a bit of a pickle for them.

Volt 10-21-2010 09:19 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910 (Post 1031456)
No way Mike...I'm all for seeing a guy get a good hit but this is overboard. There are plenty of good hits in rugby with the whole "ohh ahh" factor without people ending their careers. Yes, this is American Style (I'm bigger, badder and stronger) style football but it's about the safety of it all the way down to pop warner. You think it's only the NFL that worries about this? My friend told me when he played football in his teens, all that padding made him feel like he was safe to launch himself at someone else. Kids see NFL players do it and they think they can too.

They make tons of money because the injury is a factor of their career. They go with the "I'm taking what I can now before it's over" frame of mind.


I actually like Aussie rulles football better than the NFL. Similiar to rugby but a bit different. From what I see on tv, they hit every bit as hard as any NFL type and wear next to nothing as far as pads, helments, etc. A ton more action/play time and a faster paced game. They leave the game way more bloodied and beat up and don't whine about it. It's a strength game with who can move the ball.

As to the rules. I don't want to see peeps get hurt, but it is a physical sport. That's why little guys like me and girls don't play it. It's getting to the point the offense is almost untouchable except in certain points of a play and only in some specific format. I'm fairly serious, they might as well attach flags to their waist's.

Of all the hits over the last weekend, I still think the hit Harrison hit on Massoqui was legit. From my point of view he dipped just as Harrison was tackling him. Maybe we need a rule that phohibts the offense from such actions and drawing the helment penalty? In baseball we have balks? For the record I am a Steelers fan, be that as it may.

yourchoice 10-21-2010 09:27 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Volt (Post 1031586)
Of all the hits over the last weekend, I still think the hit Harrison hit on Massoqui was legit. From my point of view he dipped just as Harrison was tackling him. Maybe we need a rule that phohibts the offense from such actions and drawing the helment penalty? In baseball we have balks? For the record I am a Steelers fan, be that as it may.

Are you sure you're not referring to the hit on Cribs? The Massaquoi hit looked like a swan dive with his arms spread the way they were. That's what they used to call spearing. Head down, no attempt to wrap. Poor tecnique IMHO.

Mugen910 10-21-2010 09:28 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Volt (Post 1031586)
For the record I am a Steelers fan, be that as it may.

damn and here I thought we were friends :c

Volt 10-21-2010 09:40 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910 (Post 1031604)
damn and here I thought we were friends :c

:) What's funny, is I'm originally from LA. I was a Saints fan back in the days they wore bags on their heads to the stadium. Archie never had a team to play with. Started following the Steelers when Terry Bradshaw got picked up by them. It's a club with "usually" little to no drama, no prima donnas, and a real good basic football program. Of course our "alleged" molester has changed it a bit. I'd as soon see him get canned and have Batch take over.

I think there are going to be many opinions on what is excessive and what constitutes a good hit. Mostly in part I just see the NFL going the way of most things that get over regulated - dull and uninteresting. Take NASCAR as a recent example. France and crew took the race out of racing and now they are scrambling to recover a lot of what they lost. Rubbing and tempers are a part of it, other wise go race Indy/CART and keep your courtesy 2" (sorta like dancing with your mom), not much fun.

Deliberately wreck a person - take a 1 lap black flag like you used to, but "racing" for a clean, image correct corporate world is boring. I haven't watched a whole race much less a part of one in 5 - 7 years.

Resipsa 10-21-2010 11:24 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
http://www.usafootball.com/articles/...icle/6085/5470


If you're not leading with your helmet to begin with it's pretty difficult to wind up with helmet to helmet contact. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it's pretty difficult.

gvarsity 10-21-2010 12:58 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
The tricky part is when it is inadvertent and you can't judge intent very well from the sidelines. One of the hits I saw fined this weekend looked like the defender lept and the offensive player collapsed down into the hit. Had the offensive player stayed up he would have taken it in the chest and not the head. I'm all for preventing INTENTIONAL injury but accidental is part of the game. Shots to the head the knees and from behind are all already accounted for by rule.

Really though this appears to be a significant increase in the penalty for spearing to the helmet as opposed to an actual rule change. You shouldn't be leading with the top of your helmet period. You do that and hit someone in the head and you get fined and ejected. I think the ejection is a bad idea only because it will be to hard to judge a. intent and b. what actually happened unless it is reviewable and even then it would be hard. Can you imagine the impact if say Troy Polamalu was ejected from a playoff game by a legit hit that looked bad? Easily could change the outcome of a game and be a nightmare for the NFL.

shilala 10-21-2010 01:16 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
I was gonna say much the same thing, Pete.
It's a business. Business is to make money. The owners don't give a red rat's ass what we think, they need to protect their investment.
I watched the Steeler's game. I don't feel that Harrison intentionally went helmet to helmet in either hit, nor was it his intent. I don't think either were a big deal, but guys got hurt. Guys are gonna get hurt in football whether the hits are legal, questionable, or illegal. It's a violent sport. It's why I watch it.
I'm more concerned with the crybaby way he's handled himself since the game. He's a douche. Don't tell him I said that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by replicant_argent (Post 1031436)
Players are getting bigger, stronger, and faster. Until articulated armored uniforms are de riguer (protecting joints, head, and spinal injuries to a factor multiple times the possible generated force) it will become increasingly more dangerous for players. At some point, these players will reach a finite point of training, conditioning, and ability due to the limitations of the human body. We have not reached it yet, and already it is a very dangerous sport, whether the infractions are intentional or unintentional. As far as the homer argument of "Where would I rather cheer for my favorite player?," at some point it may become "from the DL, the hospital, the wheelchair, or the morgue."

Of course, logically, YMMV, if you are a rabid fan. Nothing wrong with being a rabid fan, and if you want to see gladiatorial style combats (ala' MMA), so be it. But the NFL (and their individual owners, coincidentally) must decide how much they want to gamble by taking steps to protect their multimillion dollar assets. Diminishing returns indeed on that investment are possible, if not expected, as these players "progress" to higher ability.

But what do I know? I'm just an average stupid guy.


Steelergar 10-21-2010 04:55 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
James Harrison is a serious guy. He loves football and tries to play football the best way he can. You can't blame him for being upset for doing his job and playing defense they way the coaches teach him to, than getting an outrages fine for it. Not everybody thinks the same so you can't get mad at him for his reaction. I agree players should wrap more I've noticed that for years. You see it alot SS's and FS's leading with their head to break up passes. But learning how to tackle at a fundemental midget league level and an NFL level is different. Of course you want to wrap players up but there is more than one was to crack an egg. And NFL coaches teach their players to go for a hit when another player has them wrapped up. Its the fastest and best way to stop the play. They also train them to do that to seperate the player from the ball. That happned on both of Harrison's defensive plays in question. So from that stand point he did his job. Do you guys know a better way to dislodge the ball? Wrapping dosn't do it.

pinotguy 10-21-2010 06:00 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
This week's development is just a continuation of the "*****fication" of the game, IMO. A couple of years ago, when Hines Ward broke the jaw of that Bengals LB on a perfectly legal, peel back-type block, the league outlawed that. Last year, they outlawed a wedge larger than three players on kick-offs. This year you can't line up directly over the center on FG/PAT attempts - WTF, over? The NFL reaps all kinds of benefits from this kind of contact but is now trying to legislate it and in the middle of the season? There's quite a bit of hypocrisy involved on their part as well. I just read today that earlier in the week, their official merchandise website had a photo available of the Harrison/Massaquoi hit for purchase. (This has subsequently been removed.) So, for a short time, they were making money (or at least trying to) on one of the exact examples they're holding up as taboo. Ray Lewis got it right yesterday when he essentially said that the game is too fast and trying to avoid a big-time collision is not realistic. It also seems like in a lot of these cases, the receivers and tight ends contribute by trying to get "small", which alters their body position and that's when the big hits happen.

Steelergar 10-21-2010 09:12 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Yeah the last couple years have been a joke with the rule changes. I really don't like the decisions the current president has made. But these rule changes to beef up passing and TD's has been going on since the 70's when they made a rule named after a Steelers DB that changed the way they could cover recievers. After that Rivers hit they made the Hines Ward rule. Enoughs Enough! Quit ruining the game I love to watch.

yachties23 10-21-2010 09:59 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelergar (Post 1031063)
What do you guys think of the NFL headquarters changing the way defense is played. Like most people I don't want to see guys get seriously injured when watching a game. However, I love smash mouth, hard hitting, good tackling defense. I enjoy that as much if not more than watching the offense score touchdowns. I have no problem with the NFL going after deliberate hits to the head. But for going after James Harrison for making a smart football move is ridiculous. Whats you take?

James Harrison said he goes out there to hurt people, but he doesn't want to injure people. That hit was as dirty, and wasn't a smart football play. When asked around the league the players always throw his name out there as one of the dirtiest players.

That being said, I think they should fine players for blatantly dirty hits, and if a player continually aims for the head, suspensions should be handed down. I understand its a man's game, but there are limits. Merriweather's hit was intentional, so was Harrison;s. When your intentions are to knock somebody out of the game, you are asking to open your checkbook up,

Steelergar 10-21-2010 10:02 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
I just figured out why the NFL office is cracking down on what they call violent hits. The US Congress had hearings with the NFL during the offseason grilling NFL representives about concussions. I guess retired players were complaining and did not feel they were taken care of corectly by the NFL and went to the goverment. Now we have a bigger problem. What buisness does the US goverment have with how football is played. I guarantee you they put pressure on League headquarters. Whats next? Boxing, MMA, Hockey, Nascar. We got a major problem now!

Steelergar 10-21-2010 10:07 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yachties23 (Post 1032686)
James Harrison said he goes out there to hurt people, but he doesn't want to injure people. That hit was as dirty, and wasn't a smart football play. When asked around the league the players always throw his name out there as one of the dirtiest players.

That being said, I think they should fine players for blatantly dirty hits, and if a player continually aims for the head, suspensions should be handed down. I understand its a man's game, but there are limits. Merriweather's hit was intentional, so was Harrison;s. When your intentions are to knock somebody out of the game, you are asking to open your checkbook up,

and thats whats being said of why he got fined. His post game comments not his legal hits.

yachties23 10-21-2010 10:15 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelergar (Post 1032692)
and thats whats being said of why he got fined. His post game comments not his legal hits.

Legal, and clean are two different things. Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. You are a big MMA guy, I've read your posts, I respect your opinions on fighters big time, but here, I disagree bigtime. Lets say Mike Wallace gets tied up by Joe Haden who has his legs wrapped up and is trying to pull away. He has no idea TJ Ward is lined up and Tees off on him. Commercial break. We come back to Wallace being boarded up, and carted off. No where near as appealing as Harrison's hit on Cribbs right?

You can't play favorites here. Yes there are hits that through no fault of the defensive player are to the head (the hit on Jackson this weekend is a good example) but there are players, James Harrison, Jared Allen, Brandon Merriweather, that are notorious for laying dirty hits on defenseless offense players.

Steelergar 10-21-2010 10:47 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
From my revelation above, its a bigger problem with the US goverment involved in sports. Even Ray Lewis said those hits were clean. Players around the league are angry at the NFL office right now. Calling a player dirty are certain peoples opinions, thats fine. I would like some examples of these dirty plays though because I watch the Steelers every week I never see them. I see tough smart football played by Harrison. I also see OL try to clothesline him when he is running around them that rarely gets called.

yourchoice 10-22-2010 05:29 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
http://images.footballfanatics.com/p...F_154265_s.jpg

Just sayin'. ;)

Wanger 10-22-2010 08:06 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Parshooter (Post 1031411)
What needs to happen is for these defensive players to get rid of the "thug mentality" and get back to basic tackling, with arms and shoulder pads, to the torso. Look back during the days of Butkus and Singletary. Those guys hit just as hard but did it the correct way.
Steelergar, glad you're not looking at this through black/gold colored glasses ;)

Read the whole thing, and have one specific comment on this all...
Look at the Vikings players, and specifically Antoine Winfield. He's widely considered to be the best tackling cornerback in the league. His technique is "perfect", and he routinely brings down players much bigger than he is on his own. The effort and technique that he uses seem to spread through the team (when they can actually tackle someone). I don't see a lot of head down, launching plays from them, though Ray Edwards has a penchant for trying to leap blockers to get to the QB. I think in general, they all use good technique, as to teams like the Ravens (from what I've seen). They hit hard, but cleanly, and with good technique (Ray Lewis).

Going in leading with your helmet and your head down is a good way for YOU to end up with a concussion, at the least, and potentially in a wheelchair (it has happened, and will continue to happen).

gvarsity 10-22-2010 10:10 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanger (Post 1033009)
Read the whole thing, and have one specific comment on this all...
Look at the Vikings players, and specifically Antoine Winfield. He's widely considered to be the best tackling cornerback in the league. His technique is "perfect", and he routinely brings down players much bigger than he is on his own. The effort and technique that he uses seem to spread through the team (when they can actually tackle someone). I don't see a lot of head down, launching plays from them, though Ray Edwards has a penchant for trying to leap blockers to get to the QB. I think in general, they all use good technique, as to teams like the Ravens (from what I've seen). They hit hard, but cleanly, and with good technique (Ray Lewis).

Going in leading with your helmet and your head down is a good way for YOU to end up with a concussion, at the least, and potentially in a wheelchair (it has happened, and will continue to happen).

I would also suggest that nobody thinks that the Vikings defense is soft because the wrap tackle and bring players to the ground. Antoine Winfield is known both as a sure tackler but also a hard physical tackler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parshooter (Post 1031411)
Originally Posted by Parshooter View Post
What needs to happen is for these defensive players to get rid of the "thug mentality" and get back to basic tackling, with arms and shoulder pads, to the torso. Look back during the days of Butkus and Singletary. Those guys hit just as hard but did it the correct way.
Steelergar, glad you're not looking at this through black/gold colored glasses

Singletary maybe as he was a pretty stand up guy and hard player but Butkus was dirty as hell and that is what made him a star. In that period they were all dirty. He had a head slap and a clothesline and spear in his arsenal as much or more than anyone of his generation that's why people were scared of him. Going back in NFL history we are looking at significantly more violent, reckless and dangerous play rather than basic fundamental tackling.

Mikey202 10-22-2010 11:33 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
If I was Harrison I would put back $1 million for fines, and just go play. As a fan of the game, I have no problem with the hits. These guys are so much faster and stronger than years ago. I don't want anyone to get crippled or killed. These guys are paid Millions to play, and I think it's more about liability, rather than a safety issue, as far as the NFL is concerned.

I mean these guys are told to jack people up coming across the middle of the field, and have the attitude of punishing someone, from day 1. Look at Ed McCaffrey who used to play for Denver. That's what he was known for, he got jacked-up all the time, he broke his leg once. ESPN rated him as the player most likely to take a bad hit on the field.

I hope it doesn't get to the point of people tackling like Dion Sanders,(ESPN rated him as the person most likely NOT to take or put a hit on someone.)
It's football , it's a violent sport. I'm glad I have Harrison playing for my Steelers.

forgop 10-22-2010 11:41 AM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
I just heard Kyle Turley on Jim Rome. He expressed how po'd he is at the league and the union over this. He mentioned how players are consistently denied disability from former players complaining of injuries stemming from hits to the head. Like he said, the NFL wants to crack down on these hits while collecting fines, but then deny every claim possible.

Resipsa 10-22-2010 12:25 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yourchoice (Post 1032894)

:r:r

Resipsa 10-22-2010 12:27 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelergar (Post 1032690)
What buisness does the US goverment have with how football is played. I guarantee you they put pressure on League headquarters. Whats next? Boxing, MMA, Hockey, Nascar. We got a major problem now!

I really hope you were joking. If you weren't I wouldn't even know where to begin to try to explain it to you.

Slow Triathlete 10-22-2010 02:05 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
I think that it is turning into a league of nannies!!

That's why I switched to rugby.

Steelergar 10-22-2010 03:58 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Resipsa (Post 1033379)
I really hope you were joking. If you weren't I wouldn't even know where to begin to try to explain it to you.

So you think its the job of the US federal goverement to tell the NFL how players should tackle? I hope your joking. However, I do know where to begin.

forgop 10-22-2010 03:59 PM

Re: NFL's new safety policy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelergar (Post 1033630)
So you think its the job of the US federal goverement to tell the NFL how players should tackle?

Why not? They're pretty much mandating what we can or can't do in every other aspect of our lives. :tf


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.