Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I'm a newbie so please forgive me if this is so basic as to belong in the newbie section.

I performed the salt test as directed but only left everything in the bag for 12 hours as opposed to the 24 hours I've seen suggested in some places. My digital hygro registered 65%.

However, twice I've left the hygro outside over night and both time it was dead on with the local weather station's RH reading. What gives? Did I not perform the salt test long enough? Are different results to be expected when leaving the hygro outside?

This whole hygro accuracy/humidification level is necessary but it sure takes a lot of the fun out of this hobby.

HELP (and thank you, too)!

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

24 hours is whats suggested and whats been proven to be the amount of time needed, you should try again with this amount of time it should read 75% .... also just because what the weather station suggests at their reading doesnt necessarily mean its that same as where you are.

If your still skeptical you can always just buy a boveda calibration pack for about $5 and use that. Best way and I believe its good for 3 months so you can calibrate a few hygrometers.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I recommend using the boveda testing packs. Sure they are a few bucks, but the accuracy of them are well worth the trouble. Plus, they stay consistent for months, so you can test it later down the road if you would like to.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I Agree With The Boveda Pack Test. Never Could Get The Salt Test To Work After Multiple Tries.:tu

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Well, the Boveda Pak is just a premixed salt test. If you have trouble mixing your own, I'd go ahead and spend the money on a Boveda. If you're a do-it-your-selfer, save the money.

http://www.bovedadirect.com/products...cfm?ITEM_ID=12

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

If you have any of the HumidiPacks that often come with shipped cigars, throw the hygro in there for 18+ hours at room temp. The packs are +/- 1%, but usually pretty spot on. It will at least get your hygro to within 1%. Worked for me...and it was free...if you don't count the cost of a box or two of cigars. :)

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

The whole problem with the salt test is that if the consistency of the salt is off just slightly between tests, your hygrometer could have readings as far apart as 10%... I use the Boveda packets. They are easy and you know for sure what the RH is going to be.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

:tu

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I know this was posted a while ago but is anyone willing to trade for a Boveda pack or link me to where I can buy one? Thanks

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Here you go...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boveda+pack

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Thanks Bobarian!

Haha and thank you oh wise Adam. The only reason I asked is to see where you guys get it from versus where would be a non reputable retailer or something.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Finally decided to do this vs the salt test. Got an additional Xikar hygrometer in route, so time to get it right. I trust my beads but tired of wondering if it is accurate or not. I had ZERO luck with the salt test, at least I still had my doubts.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Not to discourage you... But I have very very serious doubts about the salt test. Not really the test itself but with hygrometers. Not trying to rain on Anyones parade here but I've never seen anything or any scientific source where the validity of the salt test has ever been proven accurate. And, even if I had seen such proof... It doesn't mean the hygros are reading properly. I've tried on more than one occasion (at least a dozen) to calibrate hygrometers using it with oftentimes terribly inaccurate or even impossibly false results... On several occasions testing up to 10 of the same exact model hygro... On others testing at least 7 different models of hygros... In the same test at once... Getting vastly different readings from each hygro even after calibrating.

The truth is... The only really reliable way (IMO) to tell if your cigars are at the right humidity is to feel your cigars. Feel them between your fingers... Smoke them, literally fondle them until you can pick up your favorite cigar and know by the way it feels if it is going to smoke the way you want it to.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I keep doing the salt test and find that the outside ambient temp has a affect on the RH. So what is the ideal ambient temp for a salt test to get 75% RH?

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Temps in Celcius but easily converted. http://www.omega.com/temperature/z/pdf/z103.pdf

Clayton, the chemistry of aqueous solutions of various salts has been a laboratory standard for a very long time. The reason for variability is results is in the test method not the chemistry. :2

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Do yourself a favor and buy a Boveda calibration pack. The convenience, simplicity, and accuracy are well worth it.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I believe the scientific validity, but I fear there are too many variables in the common setting. Like others have stated, specific amounts of water to salt would be very helpful. And do different forms of salt make a difference?

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

According to Boveda, and I called the company personally and spoke to a rep, their kits are +/- 2 points at 70 degrees.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

All I know is I have had a Walmart digital running in a salt test since before Xmas along with a couple hygrometers. The digital RH moves more depending on the ambient outside temp. Colder outside the lower the humidity in the test container. The mechanical hygrometers have a little less change but they still change. So, I don't know what ambient temp is best for the salt test. Maybe it is 75 degrees?

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I calibrate all my hygrometers by dropping them in the toilet. I set them to 100% then fish them out and sleep soundly at night knowing they are dead nuts accurately set at that point.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

:tpd: I have yet to ever get the salt test to work for me.:sh

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Sheesh. I just put a few drops of water in a bottlecap of salt and always get exactly 75% - every time. I guess I'm crazy because I'm apparently also the only guy that can get analog hygrometers and foam humidifiers to work flawlessly too. :sh

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Mr perfect called. He wants his Tshirt back. JK. I haven't had the same results. With that said my cigars smoke fine and I am confident the beads are doing well. Just would be nice to have the peace of mind.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I've salt tested all 7 of my hygro's and with the exception of one being off 2% high and one 1% low I've never had a problem with the test not working. My house stays at about 74 degrees and my test always seem to work.

I have 2 more of the walmart hygro's testing as we speak and after about 14 hours they were at 75% both when I left for work. Also the temp was also reading 74.

When I put the meters in my cooler or vino with the beads the all read between 66 and 69 so I know they are reading just about right and my beads are doing there job.

I do however use a stick of beads once ever couple of months and put all the meters in a large Tupperware for a day or two just to kind of spot check.

Btw my meters are a mix or humicare, xikar, walmart and 2 no name brand so it has worked for different brands for me.

Btw what I use is the mortons salt that comes in the blue paper can thing. I use a soda cap filled till it's level then add enough water to change the color of the salt from white to just clear ( my guess is about 5 or 6 drops) then I stir it around with a tooth pick to make sure it's evenly damp and not overly saturated. I then use a rubber made container (about 4 inchs tall and 6x6 square).

Maybe I'll do a little test and break it down to how much salt to use and drops of water. Maybe that way we can all get better results.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Sounds like a good plan. Thanks!!

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Sounds good to me too thanks! Also what amount of time do you guys leave it in there? One hygro instructions said 4 hours another said 8 hours while online says 12 to 24 hours.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

When you see it stop changing...you're done.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Will a humidipak work?

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

As long as it is accurate. ;)

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

It says relative humidity 69%. I tried the salt test but not sure if I did it correctly.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

G, I am just saying that just because the humidpack says it is a 69% RH does not mean that it actually is accurate in and of itself.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Very interesting I've yet to try this, I've got a few spares around the house....Let me see if that will work.

EDIT T.G is right except I've notice to completely calibrate it you'll need to flush the toilet. It really gets the bugs out of those touchy little hygro's. It now properly reads " " which is far more accurate then it did before the flush test. :tu

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I leave mine for 24 hours. Most of the time after 10 to 12 hours it will read 75%.

I don't know if the humi would work cause I don't really have any but I don't see why it wouldn't as long as the pack is working like it should as stated above.

I know it works with beads like I said above I spot check all of mine every 2 or 3 months with the beads.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Felt like posting on this again...

I'm in no way saying we should completely ignore technology... But I can't help but feel like we've become so reliant on digital hygrometers that some of the old ways have been lost.

How did people check the humidity of their cigars before digital hygros came about?!

I have digital hygrometers in all of my humidors. However, when it comes down to it... My bottom line test of humidity is literally picking up and feeling my cigars.

Just do it! And stop worrying about stupid salt tests and hygrometers that may or may not be working correctly!

Cigars are a hobby for all of the senses... And touch is one of the most important if not one of the most neglected ones... We should all take a little more time to simply feel our beloved smokes... Yes... It sounds dirty... But caress them. Be gentle with them... Take the time to get to know them by touch. And I guarantee you you never NEED another hygrometer or salt test ever again.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

On specific amounts of salt to water...
It's real simple. The salt just needs to be saturated. There's a huge margin for error. Even if you have half salt and half water, you're still okay. The solution will still yeild 75% over itself.
That's why we use this test for calibration, it's so simple, and so hard to screw up. What happens is we start thinking too hard, and get scared of the unknown. :)

Your question about different forms of salt is kind of a loaded one. If you mean "does magnesium chloride yield a different RH than sodium chloride?", the answer is yes.
If your question is "Do different brands of table salt yield a different RH?", the answer is "yes, maybe a fraction of a percentage point."
If your question is "Can I use salt substitute like people use for low salt diets for the test?" the answer is no. It'll yield a different RH, as it isn't table salt, or sodium chloride.

The only thing I can add that may help is that by increasing the surface area of your salt/water mixture, you can move things along a lot faster.
That means that if you use a peanut butter jar lid rather than a soda bottle lid, the air inside your ziplock bag (or whatever) will come to 75%RH a lot quicker.

One last thing...
The depth of the salt/water solution in the peanut butter lid or pop bottle lid or shot glass or whatever doesn't matter at all. A half inch is as good as a mile.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I agree and disagree, NJ.
If a person has no frame of reference on how wet or dry a cigar "should be", it's dang near impossible for them just to go on their gut. The worry will drive them insane.
I think it's an evolution. Bear me out...
Once a guy gets the salt test under control, then gets good hygros, then gets their cigars where they like them, then they have gathered lots of valuable experience. That whole process takes time. Maybe a year, maybe a couple years, maybe less.
Through that process, they'll have tried cigars stored at many different levels of wetness, and they'll figure stuff out. Important stuff like "it appears my cc's smoke a lot better at 55% than 70%" and "it appears my nc's smoke better at 65% than 55%".
I can pick up a cigar and smell it and feel it and know if it's too wet or too dry for my liking, but I have some time in. A guy who has just started in the hobby may not have someone with experience to teach them in person, which would be a lot better. So they rely on the next best thing, which is our brothers online.
In time, the new hobbyist isn't going to rely or obsess on hygrometers.
Or at least this is how it all progressed for me. :D

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

You're right.

And I think we're on the same page and trying to make a similar point.

I can simplify my rantings to this:

We could all probably afford more experience when it comes to cigars.

So to the point... I would encourage new enthusiasts (and even some old ones) to develop their experience through their senses (ie. feel)... and testing and hygrometers so that they too one day can pick up a BBF or a FFOX or whatever their "fave" may be... and know simply by feeling it if it's right to smoke... rather than simply trying to rely on the tests and hygrometers.

That being said... you can ALWAYS rely on Shilala's beads to keep a perfectly measured humidity. :tu:tu

I also feel like that's one of the coolest parts of the cigar lifestyle... and unfortunately I think a dying part... the next time you get ready to smoke your favorite stick... pick it up... feel it... smell it...take a close look at the veins and the coloring... even listen to it as you slightly apply pressure to the area just below the cap to check its elasticity. Using all of your senses to examine and enjoy your smoke will really enhance your experience. At least it does for me.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Never forget also the volumes of BS info out there that are just begging for someone to read it and be
taken down the wrong path. My blog for instance, ROFLMAO.
No I mean the 50 or so places you can read "Squeeze the cigar between your fingers...it should give
slightly and then spring back, and should not crackle". If a cigar doesn't crackle, I wouldn't LIGHT the
thing, cause I know a properly humidified CC ought to certainly crackle. Knowing the difference between
a crack and a crackle, see Ninja's point above. And I guess a NC should "give", but what does GIVE
actually mean. 1/16th inch...1/4 inch....1/8 inch....fingers touching, lol.

Or another one..."Please look at our Counterfeit gallery to see what the bands should look like." Please.
How many Bolivar bands are there. Almost every one is different in color from one year to the next.
"My rows of squares are cut off, these must be fake." "The embossing on one side is crisper than the
other, I must have fakes." Time my chirrens, TIME. It's all it takes.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

How many times have you done this and found it not to be where you like it and still went ahead and smoked it?

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

hehe, don't get me started on that subject.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Amen. :D

Good question, and that kinda goes to NJ's point.
For me, I go "dammit, these ain't ready yet", and pick something else. If I really, really want the one I wasn't happy with, I'll smoke it anyways, but only if it's within a certain "window".
If they ain't ready, they just ain't ready. That's just me, though. If a guy likes their stuff real wet, then they can go ROTT all the time. I just don't like wet stuff, and my like for dry stuff just gets drier and drier.

Thing is, I wouldn't know the difference between wet and dry were it not for guys teaching me. I think we use hygros and stuff as the best possible way to translate our senses to each other when we can't be in each other's presense. I know I'd learn a lot more in a day with a seasoned BOTL playing in his humi than I can in a year fighting with hygrometers. :)

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Table salt is sodium chloride. A little iodine in it is not going to make any difference. Room temperature is 20-25 C. Not much variance there. A saturated solution is when no more solid can be dissolved. Covering the salt just a little higher with water will give you this. A totally sealed container will reach equilibrium in time. The table Bob posted shows 75.2-75.5% with NaCl.
All that said, I use my hygrometer as a baseline for seeing changes. I use the feel of the cigar to judge smokability.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

That depends a lot on the cigar and my experience with it.

For instance... I know that when I pick up a Por Larrañaga PC... I'm going to want it to feel literally squishy. I know this because I have smoked tons of them and I feel they smoke best when they feel squishy and make little or no noise when I apply pressure.

So if I pick one up and it doesn't feel that way... I'll put it back and up the humidity in that box.

On the other hand... if it's a cigar I'm not terribly familiar with... I may examine it and smoke it anyway... making a mental note of how it felt and looked and sounded so that if I don't like the way it smoked... I'll know next time if I pick one up and it feels the same way... I probably won't smoke it. Or Vice Versa if I did like it... the next time I pick it up... if it feels the same way I'll be more likely to smoke it.

And please DO NOT believe when they say a cigar should not "crackle" of course it should crackle. You should not hear any distinct "pops or snaps" (Rice Krispies anyone?) but hearing a sound slightly like the crackle of the famous cereal is definitely ok... if not preferred.

Hope that helps.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Thanks for your answers. How does one up the humidity in that certain box alone? And how long does it take?

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

Wayne, I have about umpteen cigar jars with beads. I can set the beads at whatever RH I want. Plus I have a cooler. And a couple humidors. And a great big cabinet humidor. And a couple little display humidors.

Point being, taking care of a particular box of cigars is not a problem, beit up or down. Oversimplified, I keep an RH for NC's and CC's.
If I get some really wet cigars that I want to dry out quickly without screwing them all up, I use the cigar jars with beads. It takes about 8 months to get them from gross to real good. :tu
I seldom raise the humidity of anything, but I'd do a single box of cigars in a jar, just the opposite.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

By "box" I mean humidor.

And Shilala is dead on about manipulating humidity.

It really just takes some time and careful observation.

I know that I can keep my Por Larrañagas in the same humi as my Tat West Coasts and at the same humidity because I know that I like both of those cigars a little more humidified (About 80% RH to exact) I just add extra humidification devices to the box and make sure they are full at all times.

My LGC Serie R Maduros on the other... I hate when they get above 70% because they burn for ****. So I keep them in a seperate humidor that I maintain little or no humidifiers in. Keeping it about 60% RH.

Changing the RH of a humi is as simple as opening the door once... or putting another batch of more humidified cigars into it... If I'm having trouble getting the RH up in a box... sometimes I'll chuck a handful of my PLPC's into it for a quick burst of humidity. The cigars themselves will go much further to regulate the RH than just about anything else.

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

God I am confused. The hygrometers both read 73% 68F on the big one and 74% 68F on the little one after 24 hours with the salt test. No problem here because I was expecting it to be close to 75%. However, the one hygrometer has a max/min and the maximum it says it reached is 76%. Does that mean that my hygrometer is shy 2 or plus 1? :sh

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

+2 is likely as accurate you will get from a non-lab hygrometer. Anyone who says they have a +-0 is blowing in the wind. The chips are not that accurate even in laboratory testing. FWIW +-5% is good enough for your cigars, they are just not that sensitive to Rh. Be happy and smoke em up! :tu

Re: Accuracy of salt test calibration
 

I have to agree. I think its fine to test, I did, but the bottom line is......how does the cigar feel? A gentle press between your forefinger and thumb should have a little "give". Your cigars should light easily and not go out the second you put it in an ash tray to do something else.

I have both a digital and an analog hygrometer. I tested the digital with a kit, it was dead on 75%. The odd thing was, for as much bad press the analog hygrometers get, it is also dead on with my digital and I never tested it or calibrated it!

That said, my humidor maintains a constant 68 RH and my cigars feel and smoke great. :banger



Cheers,


Mike T.