Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

My Vinotemp runs all day because I live in Manhattan and I dont want a 400 dollar electric bill. My problem is this...

Since the cooler is always running it condenses humidity severly pissing me off with low rH numbers around 58%-60% instead of the desired 65%.

Is there any way to counteract the condensing properties of the coolerdor so that the temp remains low and humidity remains high? I have a few fans in the humi and 2lbs of 65% beads plus a Cigar Oasis... Nothing seems to keep the humidity up.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Is the drain plugged? If it isn't that is your first and greatest problem, IMO.

Take a look at what I did to my Edgestar you may have to rig something comparable.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19819

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

The drain is plugged but I have some fan wires running through the drain so its not 100% air tight... Water does leak through the drain but a lot of it is collected by beads that I placed right at the drainage point.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

So first thing is to plug that drain completely. I would get some Electricians putty to seal the drain. It never dries but provides a water tight seal. :tu

Then you can see what McGyver methods you need to employ.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

i'll give that a shot... I have always felt that its best to tackle the problem from the start and in this case the thermoelectric cooling unit in the Vino is condensing the humidity into water droplets which is why the humidity is so low. Is there no direct way to counteract the process of dehumidification by the cooling plate?

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Nope. I'm sure Shilala can put more info into that answer for me. :r

But if you don't have a closed system you can't really know how much it is effecting your rH and how much is escaping.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

That's what I am using thanks to a suggestion for Shilala. Cost less that $3.
Seems to be fairly stable. Only had the setup for about 2 weeks, though.
My room temp is 74 F. I can't cool it anymore as my wife and daughter complain as it is that it is too cold in the house. Outside temp is about 98-100 F.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

So lame....

I guess my last questions on this issue before I give up is, will high powered fans help regulate the humidity? or does that not matter.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

It's all about the fans CFM. Oust fan's IMO aren't enough. From the sounds of it you have computer fans and they should move enough air, especially considering the Vino's fan is also running. This of course also depends how much is in the vino. :2

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

What temperature are you trying to maintain inside the Vino? Anything below around 67 F is overkill and could possibly be contributing to your problem.

Also, is it a Vino with a thermoelectric cooler or one with a compressor cooler? The compressor coolers get much colder at the coils and will almost always condense out moisture. Thermoelectrics are the way to go for cigars.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Actually anything below 60F might be overkill if you plan on smoking stuff out of that vino every day. If you keep temps high you are inviting beetles to hatch if there is one or two eggs in all your cigars. Most of the people I know keep their cigars around 60-65 and the humidity at the same range...the lower the humidity and temps in the 58-60 range is for long term aging. I would not let my temp go higher in temp than 68, same goes for the RH.:2

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

I live in a crappy walk up apartment in NYC... During the summer months the ambient temp in my room approaches probabyl about 98 degrees... the temp in the Vino at its highest is around 80 degress but thats rare... it reaches about 78 when i get home and the humidity is usually about 55%. When I turn the AC on the temp runs down to 67 but the humidity remains at about 55%. The humidity is higher on the bottom about 65% because the humidity isnt condensin on the bottom only where the fan blowing in is the humidity really low for my tastes.

I had no idea that there were different types of Vinotemps. I just bought one. How do i know if its thermo electric or compressor cooled? I just ran out and got some putty. I'll seal up the drainage hole for good when i get home and recharge the beads... I'll update you all and see if it makes a difference

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Easy way to tell is if you have a flat thin bottom, about 2-4". That is where the compressor tank would be if you have one.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Based on your symptoms I would say that you do indeed have a thermoelectric unit. They are only capable of cooling 20 to 30 degrees below ambient, which is what you are seeing. I am at a loss to explain the condensation, however. That shouldn't be happening at those temperatures.

The daily temperature fluctuations might explain the inability to adequately regulate RH. The time required to stabilize RH is longer than the daily temperature cycle times, and RH is a function of temperature. Not sure how to resolve it, though.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

I beg to differ. With temperature changes and ambiet temps he is seeing it would be impossible not to have condensation. The harder the unit has to work the more water the cooler will condese out of the air. When it is up to 90+ ambient the cooler is working at it's maximum output to cool the cabinet. He is going to have to collect and return the condensate to the air in some fashion.

True but with a plugged drain and more beads or some other method he can reduce that to a minimum. My rH is affected the same as his with the temperature swings. My modifications have reduced those effects to nill except for a small portion of the day. Even when allowed to go extremely low during testing my edgestar was able to recover to within 2% of 65% rH within 6 hours with 2-3lbs of beads.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Yea I would concure with kydsid that I have a thermoelectric unit. I definitely dont have a cooling tank on the bottom of the humi...

I can literally see the beads of water flowing down the back of the humi. There is no question condensation is occuring. Unfortunately I have to keep the humi at the lowest possible setting otherwise i run the risk of infestation... Ultimately my cigars feel spongy and they taste fine but I want the peace of mind that they are resting steady at 65% all over my humi... I will not be defeated by nature or physics... or a vino temp...

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Pretty strange....I haven't had any beads of water in mine since last summer (ever) and I live in L.A. Mine is steady 65-65....sorry you're having this problem. I do have my drain plugged, for what it's worth.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Yea I have no idea whats going on... I'll plug the drain real nice when I get home... then maybe things will stabilize...

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

But what is the ambient temp in the room it is in? And does that temperature vary throughout the day?

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

It can really vary...lately it's been in the mid to upper '70's...sometimes caps out in the mid to upper '80's. The temp really does vary. We live by the ocean so it gets warm during the day and then really cools off at night.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Alright, so I went out and bought silicone putty and i plugged the hole completely and put a small silica sheet over the drain and rested a bag of beads over the drain to collect condensating water. The humidity is 65% in the middle of the humi but its sitting still at 57% on the bottom of the humi. I know humidity rises so its possible that over time the whole humi will aclimate to 65% rH. The one thing I did notice was that the temperature was real low when I woke up this morning... 60 degrees... I think the fact that i plugged the drain air tight helped keep in the temperature. Hopefully humidity will be locked in the same. I have about 2 and half beads in there all of which are located on the bottom of the humi and I have a cigar oasis running on the top shelf near the cooling fan. When I get home tonight i'll give another update as to the status of the humi.

Thanks again for all your help guys.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

I have the opposite results in my Vinotemp. My Vinotemp runs constantly but I have a problem keeping the humidity down. It probably has something to do with the ambient relative humidity. One thing to be sure of is that you are reading the humidity inside of the cigar boxes. If not, you are getting skewed readings due to the humidity swings in the Vinotemp. Well, this assumes that you store your cigars in boxes. At times I have reported humidity inside the Vinotemp at 74% but inside of cigar boxes the reading is 67%. Right now mine holds true to 64% top and 67% bottom.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

I would say 80% of my stogies are in drawers... I have about 4 or 5 boxes on the shelves currently... I just like to see my sticks in the nude. Also, I have noticed that putting them in drawers gives me more space. It has been relatively humid in NYC lately... When I open the door to my humi the humidity shoots up real quick indicating this fact.

My friend in Indiana has the same problem that you have... He has trouble keeping his humidity down. But he put his wine cooler in the basement where its cool and humid so it makes sense. I am feeling pretty good about the drain plugging. The way i have everything set up now no water should be pooling at the bottom. The beads should collect everything. I also have a few fans to get things circulating.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

You mentioned that you have AC in your apartment?

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

I do have an AC unit in my apartment but i only keep it on when i sleep at night... I turn it off when i go to work to avoide ridiculous energy bills... I spend enough money on stogies as is... added untilities are not need haha

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Did you think about having it set on a reasonable temp to help keep the vino from cycling too much in the day? Is it one of those ones that go in the window?

You don't have to keep the room at 72F, but maybe low 80's?? Its a thought.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

1) You have a low end product from some Chinese sweat shop. Based solely on periodic, competitive bids, Vinotemp will change providers routinely. (and we all know the level of quality control China enforces.) Any number of "brand names" are produced by the same manufacturers of small appliances and modified dorm refrigerators.

2) Thermoelectric cooling is based on TD (temperature differential) and, therefore, by definition will function differently depending upon the environment in which it's placed). As temperatures - and the humidity levels RELATIVE to that temperature vary, so will the interior conditions.

Cheap equipment, combined with inappropriate "technolgy" = crap shoot. The nature of mechanical systems and Mother Nature are such that there are no exact answers to performance issues, absent extensive analysis in a controlled environment, combined with extensive knowledge of the Laws of Physics. Obvioulsy such isn't feasible / practical for most people.

3) Whenever "warm meets cool" there will be condensation. More than likely, the enclosure is not airtight, thus the excess rH is being manifested by excess condensation.

4) Thermoelectric is totally inappropriate "technology" for cigar storage. Neither temperature, nor rH can be accurately controlled other than bychance.

Even and active, compressor-driven, Vinotemp (or whatever marketing label any other importer may apply) "humidor" remains an under-engineered, questionably effective, dorm refrigerator.

5) Any "off the shelf", inexpensive hygrometer will require re-calibration on a regular (2 - 3 weeks) in order to maintain any semblance of accuracy. The only means by which to accurately monitor RELATIVE humidity is with a quality sling psychrometer.

6) I have a small collection of stogies .... passively stored in a nice box with a sponge @ ~ 72 degrees (household temp). Even if I forget to wet the reservoir for a week or 2, the cigars have always come back and I've not seen a single beetles in the past 10 years.

Apologies for any typos .... Long ashes to everyone!

Marcus

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

I have mine in a room that stays in the low 80'sF and it does a good job of holding humidity. I have found that I need to keep the boxes away from the back of the unit. When they were jammed up against the back I would get condensation.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

So as an update, I re-arranged my humi after plugging the drain air and water tight with caulk. I placed all my cigar trays on the bottom and I put a cigar oasis in one of them. It is interesting because the tray right above the cigar oasis reads 55%rH but the cigar oasis itself is reading around 66%rH. How is that possible? In less than a centimeter rH is different by 10%?

The top shelves, where i have some boxes resting, are holding constant at around 63%rH which is perfect for me. The temp has been very stable ranging from 64 degrees when the AC is on and I am home to 72 degrees when the AC is off and I am not home. I have two pounds of beads on the bottom of the humi with a small fan up against the wall to get some circulation going.

I feel like i am inches away from a care free humidor but I just cant quite get the trays to 65%rH... I am not quite sure how to fix that aspect.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

Patience.

One other thing I saw, you has beads laying in the puddle soaking up water. That's the absolute worst thing you could possibly do.
It's a mold problem, and it is a great destabilizer of humidity.
If you have puddling, use a computer fan, point it at the puddle area, and let it evaporate the water and return it to the air.
The cigars, wood, and beads will readsorb that water, and you'll have a nice thing going. :tu

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

I thought the beads would absorb the water and disperse it that way? I actually havent checked the bottom of my humi since sealing the drain so I dont know if water is pooling down there or not but I would assume so. When I get home today I'll take a look and see what the deal is and turn the fan around if there is pooling.

Re: Vinotemp Runs Constantly
 

One problem from my experience is that Cigar Oasis, they are not dependable and because they actively spray mist (be it very very light and thin it is still mist) the hygro does not read from anywhere but the immediate area. I have an Edgestar 28 (I agree with MarcusWheat, they are all low bid chinese built) and the temp holds a steady 65-67 but I have been working on the humidity. I think I am close now but have gone up 1/2 pound at a time on beads from 1.5 pounds to now using 2.5 pounds. I live in a moderate humidity climate. I am using Scott's beads, I really like his containment system on them. Following his instructions I have raised them to maintaining 68% so as not to get too low with the swings that are a part of wine cooler humis and 2 Oust fans also but not sure how much good they do with such limited volume. When I open the door it shoots up to 70-71% but simmers back down in only a few minutes. I am using It is a hit and miss process to find what works in your situation, one problem I have never had is high humidity levels.

Just be patient with it and keep experimenting. Also most people seem to load the bottom of the cooler with beads. Water sinks in air so doing this does not make a lot of fundamental weather sense. I have moved 1/2 pound bead bags around and found best results with one at each level top to bottom. Trial and Error.