Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Recently my inlaws were having issues with a deranged neighbor coming on to their property at night and vandalizing random things as well as petty theft. After numerous incidents they installed a camera system. Well this oh so bright individual tried to steal one of the cameras and even pointed it at his face while pulling it off the wall of the garage. He was arrested the next morning and is still sitting in jail because no one will bail him out...

Well after the arrest they learned more about this individual and he has quite a rap sheet, mostly assault. Most of those assaults were on former neighbors (he moves around a lot). Turns out he has some sort of mental disorder and is not a likely person to learn his lesson while in prison. So if he were released there is chance he would retaliate.

They own guns but my mother in law isn't sure she wants to have to carry in here own yard but feels she would carry a taser or something else that is non lethal and wants something for when she is home alone. She says she is not sure she could bring herself to shoot and kill.

So my question is what would be the asylum's advise for non lethal protection?

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

There isn't a really good non lethal deterrent that she can safely use from a distance, and I wouldn't recommend allowing this POS to get that close.

Shooting him in the leg or the crotch isn't likely to kill him, but it should make him stop doing whatever he's doing and maybe think twice before bothering ladies who are home alone.

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I agree but she was insistent I find her info on alternatives

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I use and have the gf carry Fox lab 5.3 for pepper spray. I had a tazer before but felt it was just a pain in the butt, ended up being more of a dust collector so i ended up[ selling it. And remember you only get one shot with the tazer then it becomes a close contact type of thing.

I use fox 5.3 because it seems to be the hottest at 5.3 mill shu, while others i have seen only go up to 2.5mil or even 3mil.

edit to add:


when i purchase pepper spray, i only get stream type sprays

http://www.galls.com/style.html?asso...og&style=SD112

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

http://www.udap.com/product.htm

Has a range of around 30 ft.

WyoBob

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

forgot to add, since he has a mental disorder and has had scuffles in the past, he may have gotten used to getting OC'd.


just something to keep in mind

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Pepper spray works on most people, but not all. Look into getting a restraining order on the guy. Sure, it's just a piece of paper and it can't stop a determined psycho, but at least the cops can arrest him on the spot for violating it (assuming Georgia law is similar to California). Best wishes to your family members, Albert... that's a bad situation :(

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Sorry to keep posting, but stuff works slowly in my head.

Like heavyd said, OC is not an end all but may help get the person out of the situation. If anyone has been OC'd majority will tell you they can still fight through it although uncomfortably and possibly not as effective.

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How about a steel whip baton - if they are legal in your state. It does not take a whole lot of arm strength to put a serious hurting on someone.

Example Here


Ron

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Dunno about Georgia law, but Louisiana law gives a lot of leeway to use lethal force if a restraining order is violated intentionally.

For the average person, shooting someone anywhere but center of mass is simply not an option. Despite hours and hours of training, and no matter how good a shot you might be, you simply cannot predict the human reaction to the presence of an immediate threat. I heard of a rookie cop that got into a shootout, blasted over 40 rounds into the side of a car and the house behind it and completely missed the guy sitting in the driver's seat from less than 20 feet. Adrenaline dumps will cause all that training and accuracy to go to complete waste if you've never experienced one before.



The best thing is to simply be smart. Carry your non-lethal goodies, but also observe common safety tips. Don't go out at night if it's unnecessary, always travel in pairs when coming or going (or be on the phone with someone), watch each others' backs when you are out. If he crosses into your property, go back inside immediately and call the police. Avoid him if you see him in public, and check with a lawyer or the city prosecutor/DA to see if there's a legal way to force him to move after repeated violations and a restraining order.

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If he gets too close, tell her a pair of visegrips to the jewels will slow him down as long as they are tight.

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I got nothin for ya Albert, but if he stays in jail long enough, it's unlikely that he'll have a home to move back to, and he'll likely relocate, being that's what he's done in the past.
Make sure your mil has whatever she needs, but having to carry a weapon in your own yard is no way to live. :(

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

self awareness whit ones one space is the best protection and your right there are a lot of nuts out there hope it all works out

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I think a short visit with an attorney familiar with Georgias laws regarding Use of Force, Castle Doctrine (if it even applies), and lethal and non-lethal alternatives and consequences may very well be whatever the hour or two might cost you, Albert.


Especially with what your in-laws might face on either side of that unstable equation.

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Depending on his mental illness, I would not take this lightly and would

1) Stay in touch with authorities to make sure you know when he is released.
2) As already mentioned here, pepper sprays may not work well for several reason, one being mental rage.
3) A tazor will always work, no way around this, out bodies are all the same.
4) Check the law, it lethal force is allowed, use it. He may have multiple assaults but you do not want to be the family where he ratchets things up! I hate guns but stuff like this... well there are exceptions to everything and this is one of them.

Batons, whips, sticks, etc... if your folks are not physically able, especially your mom, they are probably not the best solution. I would advise your parents if he is released not to be alone... go everywhere together, garden together, etc.

Good luck man, this is really terrible... a home is supposed to be your safe place.

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

how about a bean bag round for a shotgun? it'll stop without killing him.

http://www.keepshooting.com/ammuniti...nd-shotgun.htm

or how about a stun baton? 800,000 volts!!
http://www.selfdefenseweapons.com/stun-baton.htm

or you could go old fashioned with some kind of mean dog or gator

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bear traps

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

another note, and not a pleasant one to think about...



If your MiL is close enough for a baton/contact stun gun/etc.... it is far too close. Depending on physical abilities of the aggressor and the victim, within 21 feet is the danger zone, and that is less than you think. Use the police and the justice system for every possible transgression to build a case, even the little stuff, it could help them in the future as being a "reluctant participant" should any violence take place. De-escalation of any possible situation would be the proper action, even if it hampers your families quality of life for a short time, because the alternatives, if this neighbor is mentally unstable, are not acceptable.

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Tranquilizer Gun

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

The problem with the non lethal options are that they are generally single shot and/or require you to get too close to their intended target. This person is a rabid animal and there is only one solution; deadly force. If your MIL would feel better about it, have her get a 28 ga shotgun and use that instead of the 12 ga. This will stop the target and would be considered to be more survivable. A well trained personal protection dog would be another option. German shepards or Bouviers are the more stable breeds for this purpose.

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Big Dog.

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How about 12 gauge bean bag loads or just good old 12 ga rock salt loads?

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The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. When he gets out, he will be back in your MILs yard and at some point will assault someone again.

If your MIL is like mine, a bit older and somewhat feeble, whatever less than lethal device she has may be taken from her and used against her.

There have been alot of good suggestions thus far and I think a good sized "sic balls" type dog is probably your best bet at this point.

Beyond that she will need a gun, the proper training on how to use it and the mental attitude to use it with deadly intention should it come to that. If she cannot bring herself to do that a gun is not an option at all because as I stated above, it may be taken from her and used against her.

I hate that you even have to come to others seeking this advise but it is the world we live in. Always remember, when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

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Actually, that's exactly where the femoral artery is located. Damage the femoral artery and he'll be a goner in minutes.

To the OP, I would be sure that those surveillance cameras were re-installed (assuming they haven't already since the one was ripped down), get a restraining order (violating this will demonstrate a patter of behavior and leave a paper trail as to your in-laws trying legal means (on paper) to defend themselves), and sign her/them up for a gun safety course at the local gun range. This will give her familiarity when handling a weapon and confidence from practice. Additionally, be sure she keeps the certificate of completion in case she ever needs to resort to deadly force and is asked to appear in court.

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Handgun. Double Tap to center of mass. I know she doesn't want lethal force, but if the guy is mentally crazy AND has a history of assault, I would not bet my life on Tazers, pepper spray, dogs, clubs, etc. They probably won't work. :2 Your mileage may vary.

Good luck. I hope everything turns out okay and this piece of scum doesn't bother her. :tu

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I say get a dog...you get a new family friend and theif scarer awayer..

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Big, Mean Dog would be my best advice. Good Luck!

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evil sharks with frikin lasers attached to their heads

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One other great non lethal self protection device is a tall fence with a key locked gate. If he climbs the fence he is fair game to be taken out by any means necessary, lethal or non lethal. Check local laws, she very well could have more legal problems(civil) turning a dog on him than killing him in self defense.:tu

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Sadly enough this is probably more correct. Although if he falls off the fence trying to climb over it there are some lawyers who will get your in-laws money for the guy. Dogs can be poisoned or get you into trouble if they bite someone, even an intruder.

I understand the MIL not wanting to use lethal force, but it is the only guarantee that this guy will stop. There has already been a pattern of violence and the in-laws just knowing of this pattern could be enough to make the case for them feeling a threat of eminent physical harm with the possibility of death, because you never know when good ol' crazy turns into murderous rage. Two rounds through the chest. Hollow points would be my recommendation.

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

X2

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Last year a local Brother saw the whacko neighbour talking to his 6 year old daughter outside his home, he went outside asked the kid to go inside told the guy to have a nice day, turned to go inside himself and was stabbed in the back twice with a 8" butcher knife. He wrestled the knife off the guy called the cops. The whacko ran home & committed suicide, had a history of illness, was off his meds, you know the story.

You just can't tell what people with a mental illness will fixate on, better to be safe than sorry. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. IMHO

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:tpd:

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This is made by an extremely reputable company.

http://www.pepperblaster.com/

They carry them at adventure outdoors which is not too far from where you live.

http://www.advout.com/

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Albert, you've received a lot of good advice here. What I would ask your MIL is who would she rather have dead, the psycho, or herself? That question typically puts things into perspective.

I'm assuming the wacko is renting? Any possibility of talking to his landlord about terminating his lease?

Living in fear is no way to live. Good luck with your family's decision my friend.

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Big well trained protection dog, motion detector lights, wall between the properties.

Personally I like shotguns with buckshot, but if your MIL doesn't, make it hard for the guy to even get close to her.

Or his house could accidentally burn down while he's in jail. ;)

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One more thing that is good knowledge for everyone here not just Albert is if you are in a situation like this go visit your local police station. Tell them you are scared. They will make their presence known for you, especially if you come back a few times with goodies. Sandwiches, wings, whatever can go a long way.

Also make sure all of your neighbors are aware of what happened. They will look out their windows more often. I also guarantee one of her neighbors will end a situation permanently if it escalates.

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

[quote=md4958;458477] I'm assuming the wacko is renting? Any possibility of talking to his landlord about terminating his lease?QUOTE]


Good call, rental leases generally contain a provision which prevent tenants from distrubing their neighbors. A violation of such provision would be cause for breaching the lease. Also, since he is currently in jail, he probably isn't paying his rent. If he is renting, make sure that your MIL informs the landlord in writing of their tenants actions and reminds them that they she will hold them liable for their tenants actions (since they have prior knowledge of their tenant's actions and mental condition).

Either way, I would still get a big dog (and keep a loaded shotgun handy).

Best of luck!

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

If the guys got the crazys you might wanna look into less lethal vs non. If hes made up his mind hes comeing for you non lethals will more then likely piss him off evan more, Where as a nicely placed 12ga stingball or beanbag round will put him on his a$$. :2

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

The beanbag rounds and shotguns seem like excellent suggestions, but can any of you really picture your mother or mother-in-law carrying around a shotgun with them while gardening?

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

OP lemme chime in from my perspective based on 8 years in law enforcement.

1) Get a restraining order immediately.

2) Convince you MIL to carry in her yard. Open carry if permitted by law is best as this is a detterent even for a person such as your neighbor.

3) You NEVER shoot to wound. You NEVER shoot to kill. You shoot to stop. This is an important difference here. Even if your shots to stop are two shots to center mass, which they always should be. Premeditated murder can still be commited even if it is an intruder if you shoot to kill, unless you live in one of the very few states with strong Castle Doctrine. Even then in a civil affair saying you shot to kill will likely loose the case and considering the few challenges to Castle Doctrine do you want to take that chance with felony charges should the DA choose to file? And you really need to know the laws where you live; in some states merely pulling a firearm is legally the same as shooting someone as it is all considered use of deadly force.

4) Less than lethal forces take training and more often than not require backup to be effective in their use and implementation. The type of less than lethal that really doesn't is a taser, but do you want this person to be within arm's reach of your MIL?

5) In an ideal world the courts could fix this douche with a shock collar that jolts his family jewels every time he crosses into your MILs property. :D Oh well

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

Id shoot the fuker or get him on the ground with some pepper spray and break his knee caps with a baseball bat.

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Beanbag rounds for this? http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm

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And be convicted of assault with a deadly weapon? Once someone is no longer a threat continuing to assualt the individual is a crime. Just sayin.

Not gonna stay in BP for long with that idea. ;)

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

This is good advice. We had a situation a year or so ago where we had reason to be concerned about my son's birth father. We got a restraining order on him and let the local police know about the situation. They cruised our street rather regularly until he was incarcerated in the county mental health lock up.

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OH SNAP!! I didnt know they made them for handguns!! :tu :tu

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Well if she doesn't want the kinda thing I would use then she should at least have one of these.


http://www.defendingwomen.com/forum/...ith%20hand.jpg

(Not involved with this company in any way)

Re: Non Lethal Self Protection Advice
 

.357 mag. screw non-lethal

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:r Now that's the best idea yet! :r

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Interesting quote. Will go into the mental rolodex for later use.


Good luck, Albert... let us know how things turn out.