Re: The Wine Thread
 

I have just recently started enjoying Madeira and I am wondering why it took me so long to try it. I understand that most of what you have mentioned are at the higher end, except maybe the Broadbent 10yr Malmsey. so I have not tried them yet. I have tried Blandy 5 & 10 Sercial and they are great.

I also enjoy some Ports, but what's super nice about Madeira over Port, is that Madeira will virtually last for ever, even once open, if properly sealed. Port may last a few weeks to maybe a month or two and the very most.

What are your thoughts on the 5yr, 10yr and maybe 20yr, Sercial vs Malmsey vs Bual?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I was never into wine before visiting Napa for the first time in September.

On one of our tastings, a young lady couldn't stop talking about how 2007 was the "perfect season" in Northern California.

Now I don't know squat. I like what doesn't make me cringe and pucker when I drink it and makes me feel good :) . I have, however tested the 2007 statement out and when in doubt grab an inexpensive 2007 California over anything else. I haven't been let down yet.

Is it true about '07 or am I just experiencing a placebo effect?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

David James or Tobin James? A friend of mine brought me some Cab and Red Zin from Tobin James Winery in Paso Robles a while back. Some of the best stuff I have ever had. I wish I could get it in TX.

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David. It didn't even occur to me to ask him if he was related. Even after he mentioned his winery was in the hills above Tobin James' place.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Do not adjust your palate, it's working fine :D

While not to be followed as gospel, vintage charts are a good way to get a 5000 ft view, you'll find 2007 was indeed a good year for cali.

http://enobytes.org/wine_blog/2011/0...-january-2011/

hth,

-innova

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Sercial is one of the driest styles of port. Malmsey is the sweetest and Bual is close to Malmsey. Sercial is not for everyone. Just as the Verdelho is on the dry side too.

5 years is not enough for Madeira for me. Broadbents 5 year is pretty good for that age, but if you can swing 10 year it's worth it.

There's not much for 20 year. 15 seems to be the next after 10. Broadbents 1996 Colheita is good too. I split a case with my accountant, but have not tried it yet. He likes it.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Hmm...
His name is David Cole. His winery is called James David Cellars. I have no idea where the "James" came from since his website calls out a whole bunch of family members and none are named James. Maybe his name is James David Cole. I always have a problem with two first names, keeping them straight.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Thanks for you input.

I'm going to pick up a 10yr Bual and/or Verdeho this weekend to try. I have noticed you seem to like Broadbents. I am not sure if I can find that brand around my area (Henderson, Nevada). Blandy & Sandman are the most common. What others brands do you suggest?

Also, what is Colheita? Is that a brand or a style of Madeira?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Broadbent is made by Justino which is a brand to look for, but Broadbent's blends are better for some reason. Justino is popular in New England. D'Oliveiras and Barbeito are real good names. RWC Historic Series is by Barbeito.

Blandy's Alvada is worth a blend of vintages.

Colheita means harvest and is usually like the vintage year. With Broadbent I am not sure what exactly the Colheita means. It is not a vintage Madeira as far as I know. Will have to visit their site. Broadbent Selections has a great portfolio of wine, port and madeira. Try to get your B&M to pick up some of their offerings.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Isn't this because at 21 years old it can be declared with a vintage date?

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I want to taste brett. Tell me a wine that has it and what to look for when I drink it.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Beaucastel CdP or Pegau CdP tend to have it. Your luck, you'll score a perfect bottle without Brett showing, lol...

Imagine a barn yard taste similar to the same smell in a new box of cigars...

Re: The Wine Thread
 

21 is not a recognized vintage. I think it's about 20 years for Madeira to be vintage. Would have to look it up to verify. It's much longer than for vintage port which is three years.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Yep, not sure why I thought it was 21, but I guess it is 20. In any case, I imagine the reason you don't see 20 year old Madeira listed as such is because once it gets that old they can put a vintage on it, correct?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

There are no "perfect" bottles when it comes to Pegau and Beau, they simply may have "less" brett to show if properly stored in colder cellars, but they all have brett. Another good candidate is older Jaboulet (prior to mid to late '90s).

Best way is to decant these, brett gets nasty when mixed with air and "warmer" temps. Above wines are not cheap, BTW.

Another way is to go a beer supply and ask them for brett cultures, mix them with any wine of your choice, guys there should be able to give you instructions on how to innoculate a bottle of wine with brett, cheap and efficient. That might be your best bet at tasting same wine with and without brett (buy a cheap bottle of clean wine, say, a Fetzer/Beringer/Sebastiani red).

Re: The Wine Thread
 

They may just keep it on hand in pipes to blend their 5-10-15 year Madeira too.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Interesting idea, I like it. Easy to do a side by side comparison as well, but you forgot the waiting part, especially in a relatively (compared to unfermented beer) dry wine it will probably take at least a few weeks to show up in the taste, correct? I really have no idea as this method is pretty unique.

Also, if you go this route make sure the mixed culture does not contain Lactobacillus or Pediococcus, many of the mixed cultures that contain Brett for beer brewing contain one or both of these as well as a normal yeast strain. They sell the individual Brett strains on their own, but I think most all of the mixed cultures have Sacc, Lacto, and/or Pedio (Lambic Blend, Roeselare, Berliner Weisse, etc.)

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I looked it up and for a Madeira to be considered as vintage, in modern times (?), it must spend a minimum of 20 years in a cask. Any anything older is also vintage and the longer the better it should be. In the old days (?) it was often left in a cask for as long as 30 and even 40 years. Very old Madeiras are considered impeccable wines.

(?), I have no idea what modern times or the old days mean, with respect to actual dates.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I bet there are pipes going back 100+ years that are still being bottled. The thing nice with vintage port is that the bottle is that old too.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Man, y'all are getting all scientific with me now. I think I'd rather buy one than put on my Thomas Dolby hat and try to innoculate it myself, especially after reading the stuff Seth wrote...that cillus and coccus stuff sounds bad. :D

How "not cheap" is not cheap, Greg?

And thanks for the replies guys, I know it may sound like an odd request, but I'd like to know what this stuff is I keep hearing you guys talk about.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Whoa...check out what I want to subject myself to.



http://www.aromadictionary.com/artic...s_article.html

That just sounds nasty. :r

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Parker LOVES this sh#t! Openly admits to it and on top of that, teaches others they should LOVE this as well. And then people ask me why I so disagree with Parker's notes so often, his palate has been destroyed for years now and he actually gives higher scores to wines with brett (also his own admission).

Its really nasty stuff and it spreads like wildfire in the winery.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Well its sounds bad....for wine....not beers...not some beers at least. Lacto and Pedio are mostly responsible for the sour taste in sour/wild ales (like Berliner Wessie, Lambics, Flanders Ales) which to people like myself are amongst the best beers in the world.

I have a pretty good idea of what is out there in terms of homebrew cultures, and a lot of the mixed ones out there have these bacteria in them, and if you were to use them it would affect the taste of the wine (sourness, etc) and you would not just get the pure Brett character you're looking for. But it's easy to get several individual Brett strains to use, Wyeast Lab has the following:

Brettanomyces bruxellensis
Brettanomyces lambicus

These are two different strains of Brett...and just Brett, nothing else so you could get a pure result.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

It's not all bad though, again at least in beer, the current 9th highest rated beer in the world on beeradvocate uses Brett to achieve a unique flavor profile. :tu

Re: The Wine Thread
 

One could argue if these wines have always had Brett that it could be considered part of their terrior, no? I don't mind a little in them, it adds to complexity, but can spread and dominate very easily too.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Moses,

If by "terroir" you mean filthy wineries, then sure, its "terroir". A good friend of mine visited Pegau and was disgusted when he walked into the cellar/winery, mold, crap all over the walls and barrels. That was the last time he even contemplated buying a bottle.

We're back to the discussion we had before. If I pour bretty wine for you , will you be able to tell me the varietal? The answers, both short and long, are No and No Way in Hell. How's that "terroir" when brett in France manifests itself exactly same way brett in Mongolia does?

And how do you control how "little" brett there is? Inquiring minds want to know. You sound like you are a Parker faithful... Repeating same old Parker myths in same exact ways and sentences.
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Wine and beer brett cultivars are different animals/strains. Main reason brett in beer works and brett in wine doesn't.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Do we have a big enough following in the Wine thread to post up recent purchases? I'm always curious what bottles people are buying and why. Pics would be good too. I can post up some of my stash later.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I am not a Parker faithful. I fret reading any of his vintage port reviews and he hasn't even been to the Douro. How can the biggest wine critic not visit the most grand and majestic wine region in the world? The Douro could be one of the wonders of the world.

Take a look at Niepoort. They are among the elite in port houses, yet their lodge in Gaia is so mold riddled, I couldn't stay in the cellar for 20 minutes without sneezing. If their cellar was home, it would be condemned.


Brett is perception. If you taste it, it's there, if it's really strong, then it's strong. If you drink a wine and only taste a little; maybe it's pop and pour, maybe it's cooler temp??? I don't know. Just like TCA or bottle aging; it varies person to person.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Picked up a bottle of 2007 Priest Ranch Cab and their 07 petite sirah. Both were recommended by a good friend. Anyone drink these yet?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Moses,

Bottle aging IS personal taste and preference, many love tannic wines, many don't, any don't care either way. Not so with brett and TCA, they are physical faults and there is no such thing as "little" as they only gather strength with air contact. Ask Vinquiry and what they think of either one, they are clearly wine faults wine labs are looking for first and foremost. Half the Burgundy and Oregon Pinots are bretty and I have no idea how people even consider drinking those, I have yet to find a person who prefers rotten food (and there is no other way to explain brett for what it is). Would you eat a rotten apple? Something tells me you wouldn't.

If one doesn't smell either brett or TCA when they are clearly present in wine, then all I can say is one shouldn't rely on one's nose and palate too much.

I once tasted with a CA State wine competition judge, in a blind setting, and she simply could not pick up on a bottle so obviously bretty all 4 winemakers at the table couldn't and wouldn't even taste the wine it was so foul. And yes, she voted that bottle her Number 1 in the flight (although I am not sure if she simply did that to spite us). Best known wine blogger, also at the table, couldn't pick up on the brett as well and voted along with her, but then again he rates every bottle he tastes in the 8-10 (on 1 to 10 scale) and in his mind there are no bad bottles. Too bad that too many consumers simply follow others' recommendations without educating themselves on the subject.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

TCA is very subjective. I was at a port wine tasting with one of the most respected port wine experts in the world. He was the only one who did not notice TCA on one flight of port we had. I've heard that some can't discern TCA very easily. I can, but could hardly tell if it's oriental spice or spice box...

That is why I mentioned pop and pouring some wines might go right beyond someone detecting either. If they were pop and pour and being judged, then those faults aren't as big.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

You're talking about Roy?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Here's a rarity that I am not sure I posted here. Had this in Scottsdale. Who says CA can't make good Pinot? This fooled our French guests, they thought it was a mature Burgundy just as they should think so...

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...bol/bv1968.jpg

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Moses,

That wine was made by Chelischev, he's really the Godfather of Cal Pinot, historically speaking. And fruit for this one was grown in Napa, no less. If you want to try some seriously good Pinot and Chard from Napa you should look for El Molino label, that's all they do and they do it well, year in and year out.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Sounds good. I buy a lot of Diamond Creek, so I have Cab's covered from CA. Going to take a look for El Molino. If you have any good sources, please PM.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Had a bottle of '08 Amadieu Grand Roman Gigondas last night. Picked it up last week from Total Wine on special. A very tasty Rhone :tu

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Other evening wive and I had a bottle of '05 reserve Pinot Noir Robert Mondovi I forgot I had in cellar....didnt think it aged bad at all :)

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Why shouldn't it? I have had Cali Pinot 30+ years old that was drinking fine.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Because all the "professional experts" out there tell people Cal Pinot doesn't age, never mind that very few of them even drink Cal Pinot to begin with. I've had some pretty old bottles, like you said, that were simply outstanding.

'05 Cal Pinots are still young.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

My :2 I really didnt think a 12 dollar of Mondavi would be a good contender to lay down for a while. ( Yea I know 2005 isnt a while either )

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I'm drinking a 2000 Byington Bates Ranch Cab. This is our local winery. An excellent vintage back then, it is unreal now. Smooth, velvety, rich, complex. I tried to pick some flavors out but the complexity makes it too hard for me. Nothing bad at all, to me. It was about a $25 wine back in '02. Probably all gone now. I have one bottle left.
Cheers!

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Not much action in this thread, so here's my Memorial Day wine for the a smoked lamb shoulder.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...l/DSCN4515.jpg

2000 Chateau Colombier-Monpelou
1992 Diamond Creek "Red Rock Terrace"

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I don’t get to drink a lot of CA wines; this was a treat. Merlot has a bad name, but when done right, it’s no wonder why it’s a primary varietal of most Bordeaux. I wash CA would push blended wines further.

Last night we drank a wonderful expression of Merlot; 1993 Stags Leap Napa Merlot. It was really dark in the glass like it could be 2003 vintage. Ripe, perfumed with tobacco and port-like flavors. Hints of eucalyptus, spice, and dark fruit still showing well. This bottle can go another 10+ years without question. The finish was medium length with lightly chalky tannins. 93 points.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...l/DSCN4524.jpg

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Me too! Although I have about twenty bottles of blends that are some of my favorites.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Some serious wine there. I would love to sample some older Diamond Creek. Out of Cali, they are a top producer for me.

My recent bottles I've picked up over the last month or so:

2007 Patrick Lesec Les Galets Blonds
2005 Chateau Beausejour Becot
NV Jose Dhondt Blanc De Blanc
1999 Delamotte Brut Blanc De Blancs

I've been picking up some decent bottles of 2007 Cali cabs too. 2007 seems to be a good year, one that I actually enjoy for a change from Cali. Mondavi Reserve, Merus, Rubicon, Kathryn Hall all were very good. I'm very interested to know how the 2007 Diamond Creek red rock cab is.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I have had about a dozen older Diamond Creeks from the 70's on, and all have been fantastic. Some take a while to open up, but they are all one could wish for in CA Cabs. DC is one brand I buy older wines blind with good confidence.

I bet your Delamotte is going to be fun!

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Delamotte makes it possible to taste a little bit of Salon. Not exactly Salon no, but Champagne Delamotte holds its own to just about any house, in my limited opinoin. The more I drink real grower champagne, the more I respect it and love it now. I really can't wait to pop the 1999!!

Moses, you should really check out the Jose Dhondt. Such a great NV!

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Has anyone tried the Cosentino Cigarzin? I've gone through a few bottles of these, and definitely recommend giving it a try.

Re: The Wine Thread