Re: It's happening
 

kwagga2?
kumarusc2?
:D

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if you want to get banned post a thread in the general discussion and bash John whatever the hell is name is and tell him how much his site blows.

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Spoken from truth.

Although, the account and posts will not be deleted. Access will be denied.

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you can always ask pubicly to have your account deleted.. and keep asking till they do it

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And how will you continue to ask if you've been banned?

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You mean no more "No longer a community member" underneath your user name?


Man that's BS. :(

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apparently hes been having difficulty getting banned... that was actually the point... he WANTS to get banned or have his account deleted

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I guess what I was trying to say is that you may get banned but he won't delete your user name and posts.

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It was my understanding that was our friends intention... either banishment or deletion

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Of course it's your option to log on to puff and post any thread that you feel would get you banned. It doesn't make my life any easier, but who's concern is that really other than my own?

If one of the moderators won't ban you at your request, let me know. I'm pretty sure that's within my ability to do so at Puff.

This thread makes me sad on several fronts. Sad for the change to Clubstogie, sad at the fictional boundary drawn in the sand, sad to see people pick sides which inevitably creates some conflict or confrontation.

Puff.com sure is not ClubStogie, but that was pretty obvious change when Jon/Paul made their announcement.

I offered to moderate at ClubStogie soon after the announcement when there were no moderators, when a few had volunteered to nurse ClubStogie because a few people saw a glimpse of what made ClubStogie great in the past, Fellow cigar smokers helping other cigar smokers, brothers helping brothers.

Disgruntled members are expected when the change happens. That doesn't bother me. Lashing out overtly or covertly isn't a shock.

Changes are happening, the content is different, for better or worse I don't konw yet, interface is similar. Somebody is definately trying to make a buck with that site and it ain't me.

I just don't have much to post or say these days....

Happy smoking to all.. God Bless..

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how is the morale over there?

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Morale? <shrug> beats me. The new guys are still posting their questions, the old guys are mostly here. New guys are finding their way here as well.

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Seriously? You're not sure yet?

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Ji,
I truly feel for you and the other mods, specially now knowing you personally.
For me, my final button was pushed today by his choice of words and frankly, pompous arrogance in that thread that you are aware of.
That is not a way to run a business.
That was totally uncalled for and childish behavior from a person trying to build an empire in the cigar forum business.
It is not a reflection of you or any of the mods but it in fact eventually will be, unfortunately.
That is what led me to cleaning my locker room, packing, saying my goodbye's to the mods, and exiting.
Again, my condolences to you and the rest of the group.

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http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:...884-1/boss.jpg

Nuff said.

(Poker, this is my opinion.)

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Carlos.. I respect your decision to leave and understand completely. I thank you for taking a few moments to say good-bye through PMs, but you can't lose me that easy :)

As far as the personal reflection goes, I'd like to believe people form their own opinions based on my own actions, but there is truth in the reality you've drawn as well.

I hope my senses will let me know when that boundary has been crossed. I don't think it has yet, but it may not be far off the horizon.

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Puff definately isn't just a forum any longer. There's content that wasn't centralized at ClubStogie. I've seen a few of the videos, although the interviews aren't the best in the world, there was enough interest for me to sit through and at least listen to what was being said by Ernesto Padilla.

There's a level of knowledge that has definately left the forums, especially as more and more people leave.

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Ji,
I appreciate your thoughtful and insightful posts here in this thread.
It is evident to everyone (as it was 3 months ago) that Jon is not and never will be a cigar guy. He likes to think of himself as one but he's just not. Couple that with a lack of people skills and it's a recipe for disaster. I wish you and the other mods all the luck in the world. You will need it.

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Ji,
Jr. is going to be deployed to Atlanta for 10 days.
Told him to reach out to you for a smoke together at a B&M out there.
His schedule is tight but he sometimes manages to get away for a while.

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to echo this, some of the content on the main site will keep me lurking, I won't post, but I'll take advantage of the videos and content of that nature

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Well you make sure to let Jr. know my number. There's great smoking lounges around here less the dominos. My weeknights are pretty open so it wouldn't be hard to get away for an early evening cigar. They may not make rum-runners up here, but I'm sure there are plenty other cocktails that would suffice. When's he heading this way and what's his cigar of choice these days? :D

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I think he leaves in a couple of days but will check.
As for smokes, just take a wild guess.

Dad's
Dad's Cubans
Dad's Padrons

Any of them will qualify.

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Ji,

I have nothing but respect for you and others who took over duties at CS during a tough time. You, Andy, Greg, Aaron, Dave and everyone did and do a wonderful job.

It is sad to see the proverbial line in the sand as you say, but we are human, and whether it be based on sadness, anger or confusion, people want to vent, discuss, and sometimes bash. I will always respect you, not just as a Mod, but as a BOTL and someone who I have had nothing but positive interaction with. I hope that will continue, regardless of where.

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Great things in life surely stand the test of time... The heart of Clubstogie is definately still alive over here...

Tom, thanks for those kind words. You know that landscape can't change established relationships.. :D

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I was going to say, like father like son before I had the chance to read that you had spelled it out for me!

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Ji,

I remember when I started at CS, you were always level headed and it seemed as though your posts were always well thought out.

No matter what happens to Puff, good or bad, you always have my respect.

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I had a conversation with the new owner about this very situation.

I made the point that it is fine to take money from people but don't sit there and say that it is a "donation" when the money is going to what is explicitly a for-profit entity. I call a spade a spade and I said so. Being a supporter of PBS is different than subscribing to HBO. I made it very clear that it was not about the money for me but the "donation" seems like a double-dip and misleading.

I was basically told that: 1, they were not changing anything regarding the site supporter situation, 2, CS was a very profitable site (same as Puff) and that the site supporter donations at CS were not really supporting the site, just gravy and Paul was making a lot of money and 3, that $20 every six months "is not going to make or break him/the site".


After number 3 I pretty much :bh.

I hope that clears it up for everyone. :rolleyes:

I can not wait until the 18th when I will no longer have a "Site Supporter" tag under my nick.


Much respect for the Mods over there but I do not like the man behind the curtain.

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Wow!!!
Not surprising but................Wow!!!

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FWIW.. my subscription to Donate to ClubStogie expired in December and has now gone the way of the Dinosaur. I had no problems donating to Paul to help fray the costs of bandwidth and hardware.

My thoughts were that the donations/subscriptions program however you want to perceive them hasn't changed, but the premise has changed.

ClubStogie $20 donation every six months. Paul said thank you by giving some additional functionality to ClubStogie for your donation, i.e. radio, poker, larger PM box, maybe some others. But you weren't paying or subscribing to these functions.

Now it seems like it's a $20 subscription/donation keep the added functionality.

The features were never the reason I donated to Clubstogie. Easy enough to understand why donations are no longer necesary unless you want the added features.

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This kind of stuff makes an ugly read for me... it's disheartening to say the least.

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I wrote a very lengthy post on Puffer.com in reply to Dave's post criticizing Jon's claim that his member was bigger than Dave's, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. Let us all talk a moment to bow and celebrate this rarity. :D


I just do not understand the demonizing of Jon for trying to make a profit. He may be an asshole. He may not even have access to 827 boxes of aged cuban cigars (and thats only at his office humidor!!!). But profit was the chief motivator on both sides. Paul left because the site he created (as a hobby) and helped grow (as a passion) had taken to much of his time from his friends and family. It became a job.

I'm sure the reason it didn't become his sole source of employment was simply because it didn't have the pay and benefits per hour he put in. Plain and simple, he left because it didn't have the profitability.

On the other side of the fence stood Jon, who thought he could take his time and effort, and make it profitable.


I don't see how we can blame either man....solely from the perspective of being the site's admin and paying for it/making a profit. Other than that, despite my time on CS, I know neither Paul nor Jon well enough to comment. But Tom's still a DB...or so I've heard.

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that would be the crux of the biscuit behind this post.
http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/questi...lubhouses.html




My text for those that do not want to travel:
"When the clubhouses go active, will there be any kind of admission fee for any part of each clubhouse or any perks, other than the "JonSupporter" current icons? I guess I am wondering if the highly intrusive ad revenue plastered over all the pages would offset any need for revenue generated from members."



It has yet to be responded to by Jon, and it will be bumped to the first page until my question is answered.

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Certainly not my intention to put you down or make you feel bad in anyway. Like I said I really like ALL of the mods over there. I just thought that people who are "site supporters" have a right to know.

PM Sent BTW...

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My issue is not that there is a profit being made. My issue is that the subscription fee was/is being passed off as a donation.


PS - it looks like your invisible ink has expired.

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Andrew.. it wasn't taken in that light. :D

It's just kind of an ugly animal that's all....

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You guys as mods are doing a lot of work between all of you for a site that few seem to care too much for. I respect you and pity you all at the same time, (respectfully also.) I have created some of that work at times, but the fact remains that we can all see what is happening.

I am not sure I would hang in there and work for free for a place that is losing it's soul. As it becomes more and more commercial, I would think that the aquarists running that fish tank should be treated with a little monetary respect, for allowing the clicking to continue to take place relatively uninterrupted into Jons coffers.

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Son of a...! I donated $3k to Tom...he told me that invisible ink would last a lifetime!

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Indeed we are human, and it is our prerogative to voice opinion and emotion. It's not sad to pick sides - or create controversy.

However, when the jabs continue over time - it begins to appear obsessive.

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I'd say many of us are still in the early stages of the grief process. :2

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I always thought there was a big pitcher of kool-Aid passed around shortly after the announcement. I don;t think the end result surprises many of us, here.

The site is now what it was supposed to be. The heart of THAT site changed last October as soon as it went from community to commodity. I think the pain/anger/frustration some of feel is because we all felt like we "owned" CS, whether we were a "supporter" or not.

When it was announced there was a new owner, we all realized we would no longer have a say.

IMHO, Jon's motives and personality were out there for all to see if you went looking at some of the other boards, one in particular. Some chose not to see, others knew.

I don;t really care if CA becomes the biggest, the best or whatever catgeory you want it to be. It is a place where I have friends, annoyances, rants and bad humor, and that's all it has to be for me.

And then there's MCS...:D

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Yes there is.....Yes there is. I came into this world fully clothed, in a Armani suit and I plan to leave it wearing pink overalls and a green trucker hat.

MCS

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And cake, don't forget the cake.

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I feel compelled to reply in this thread (even though it's not in context with the last few posts).
Just wanted to say I'm saddened by what was bound to happen at CS. I just deleted all my info off my profile and as weird as this sounds I was a little sad (and mad) while doing it.
CS was the first on line community I had ever been on and like so many of us am sad that it came to this.
Oh well, onward and upward I guess. I'm just glad a soft place to fall in to was created for us by the 11.
Thanks,
Bear

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Having been "behind the scenes" for a long time at CS, I would debate this statement of Jon's. Paul may have made a profit from the final sale, but for years he put his own money, as well as his own sweat and blood, into CS to keep it the community he and Rob originally envisioned. Anyone who thinks that their donations when Paul owned the site were going into Paul's pockets is mistaken in my opinion. :2

The check bounced, Adam, so I made the ink "neon". ;) :r

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Funny how we kept quiet till the day of transition. Hope is the second to last thing to go I guess. Wait with Viagra etc now I guess it's the last. :)

I'm as guilty as anyone dissing the changes and projecting my view of the new owners intent here and on the old place. Got it mostly out of the system but who knows. I think we all learned from the experience. Some of the worst things that ever happened to me turned out in the long run to be the best things. This situation is one of them.

Honestly, wishing the new Puff venture all the best is probably good karma, it costs nothing, and also does good for all of us in the long run as their promoting ways help folks find and enjoy the world of cigar boards.

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And you say I am the nice guy, Dave. :)

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I am glad to see this thread has gone from people wanting to get banned to some really good comments and heartfelt thoughts.

When this site went live, I got an email from Tom and a voicemail from Gerry - both of which made my day. To think these guys would take the time to drop me a note, that is what CS created for me. A bunch of friends I have actually flown places to meet (Hey Tom, when are you finally going to make it out to California to smoke some cigars?).

When the mod team left I saw a bunch of guys who all joined around the same time as me try to keep the ship afloat and I jumped on board to try to help. If it wasn't for Blake Lockhart (I still remember the Dave's old username), I wouldn't have 300 plus 5 finger bags still ready to be used. :D I have traded cigars with most of these guys and I will honestly say, being a team member with them has been an honor. I can now see how the team of 11 became such a strong group, when you have to look over every post and make decisions as a team, it drive the bond beyond cigars.

As for puff.com, I work on the internet. I work in online advertising and I understand what Jon is trying to do. Almost everything on the internet is commercial (except for maybe wikipedia and this place). Every member here is lucky that the team of 11 has both the time and money to run this place without the need to ask for help or to flash ads to pay the bills. It is amazing how these guys are willing to spend both the time and money to keep this place running (I can imagine hosting a site this size is not cheap). With that said, I would assume there is a limit to what they can do. I doubt the team of 11 can produce cigar videos for example. Well with this group, they can probably do anything. :D

I made a post earlier in this thread about Cigar Aficionado and the cost to advertise with them. Unfortunately, if you look around, the other CA is really the only place a cigar manufacturer can advertise these days (Cigar and Smoke are horrible magazines and the ECCJ, while great is more of a European audience). So they can charge whatever they want and continue to produce a magazine that has less than 5 articles about cigars. Print advertising is dying as more people move online. In addition, it is very hard to track results in the print world, so advertisers really have no way to know if the money they spend is actually increasing sales for them. If someone wants to profit from that transition, who am I to say it is wrong. We all want to make more money and as a person who works online, I am interested to see if Jon can do it. If he can provide a better platform for cigar manufacturers to advertise and increase their business, while making money, it doesn't seem that bad to me (but again I work in a very similar business).

The idea of a central place to go and read about cigars, watch videos, read interviews, is inherently interesting to me. If that means I have to see ads for wine and liquor, so be it.

Just in case anyone is wondering, no one asked me to write this. These are my thoughts and my thoughts alone.

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Thank you too, Aaron for the kind words....I look forward to the day (hopefully soon) when we can drop the "Cyber" from our "Cyber-Herf" together. :)

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That reminds me, I need to send you guys a PM about the next cyber herf! No reason we can't all smoke some good cigars right! :D


[edit] For some reason I cannot seem to edit my last post, even though it was less than 30 minutes ago. I want to add one more thing, I don't know Jon's master plan and have not talked to him about it. I just happen to work in online advertising and have seen websites try to do something similar.

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I think ours is less time. One of the few perks we got as mods there was exemption from the search time delays (you must wait 30 second thingie). Didn't remember it existed at all until afterwards and then.. arrgh.

I liked your post and agree. Puff will take the place of Cigarlive in my frame of reference (has that feel already). A different more commercial place that has it's value and vibe particularly for folks early in the journey. The videos are cool but lookng at Lopez is starting to make my head hurt almost as bad as reading stuff from KevinG. :)