Re: The Wine Thread
 

Nice haul.

What are some good years for Bollinger?

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1996 was a great year for champagne in general. I had the 96 bollinger RD and it was fantastic. Not too experienced in vintage champagne. This is one of my new year's resolutions....

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Wine in general is something I want to get more versed in. I haven't had a Champagne in a while though. It's another wine I need to get a few bottles of. I'm also curious as to which other regions produce good sparkling wine.

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How about Pol Roger? 1998 Sir Winston worth the price tag?

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You must really love brett... These two are notorious for it.

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Nate, if you really want to learn about Champagne I would recommend you start with small, family owned brands. They are easily as good as (almost) anything from big boys and way better priced. See if you can pick up Agrapart, Henri Billiot, Duval-LeRoy, Paul Bara or Henriot. If you want to spend a bit more I can recommend you try Billecart-Salmon Rose.

And you really need to try Etoile rose as well (Napa), I had it next to some better French versions and for me it was easily the better wine at much better price.

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It is an excellent Champagne, but there are many nice ones. How much did you see it for? Under $150 I would go for it.

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A little brett goes a long way. I thought the most recent vintages aren't as "bretty"?

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All over France sparkling wines are made. Check out Cremant; all the pleasure of Champagne at 20% the price. Made mostly with Pinot Noir and comes in various sweetness levels. Cava from Spain is good too. America makes a few noteworthy ones from TX and RI.

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Thanks for the advice Greg. I think I can get most of those you listed.

Moses, most prices I have seen have been around $190-200.

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I would rather have the Taittinger Comte de Champagne at $150-200. For under $150, Pierre Peters Les Chetillons is hard to beat.

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Can anyone comment on these producers?

Perrier-Jouët
Montaudon
Bruno Gobillard
Gaston Chiquet
Gosset
Pommery
Pierre Ferrand
Godmé Père & Fils
Jean Laurent
Laurent-Perrier
René Geoffroy

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Yeah, this is Parker's most "popular" misconception that, unfortunately, has been bought by consumers. How does one "control" how much brett in in wine?

Funny, as I was having an online "discussion" with Parker on the subject and he pulled a bottle of Pegau out of his cellar and then immediately posted online that his bottle was "whistle clean", Laurence chimed in and said that ALL Pegaus have brett. You should visit the cellar/winery, its disgusting (mold on walls, barrels, etc.) Brett, from a technical standpoint, is the the single worst problem a wine can have.

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Pierre Ferrand is one of the better small house Cognacs around, IMO. Not cheap, but great. If you're into incredible Cognacs you should try Leopold Gourmel.

Of the sparklers on your list the one that "stands out" for me is Laurent-Perrier, really good stuff. Rene Geoffroy is good as well.

The other are mostly big houses (Pommery, Perrir-Jouet, Gosset) and although produce some really god wine I prefer to give my money to the small guys Gosset made its name on their Rose bottling and while good I had it next to that Etoile Rose I listed above and for me Etoile blew it away, handily. At a much better price.

The rest of the list is small, family owned wineries and while all are pretty good (I don't think you'll find a dud on the list) the few others I listed are probably better wines. The good thing about your list (the small guys) is that they are not that expensive (relatively) and you can try them all over the time to see what you like without spending a huge chunk of money.

For my money, if I really want to splurge, nothing beats Salon, IMO. They only release 3-4 times a decade and sell off bulk wine in the "off" years.

Costco in CA carries Piper-Heidsieck Rose Sauvage, at a really good price (used to see it at $40?), you should see if you can score a bottle. I know, its a large house, but the wine is undervalued, IMO, at that price.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

It's bad due to hygiene of the wine making facility. I can see if you are running a sterile and top notch facility and "add" brett like some beer makers due, but this is not true in Rhone wines. I don't mind a little brett in CdP as it is considered "terrior" to some extent, but brett can get out of control and dominate a wine in no time.

I doubt anyone would add brett to wine.

As for Parker, he knows when it's "pop and pour" the Brett may not come out, but it will sitting in the decanter for any real amount of time.

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K-met and sterile filtering then blending? Seriously though I have no idea, guess it doesn't work like that in most cases.

Its interesting to me as a former wine researcher for the University of Maryland we hated Brett, but actually kept carboys of flawed wine for educational purposes, we would have flawed wines to clearly show what a 'flaw' tasted like. Whatever Brett strain(s) we had up there had the classic 'mousy' character, funny as I don't recall getting that flavor/character in any beer.

Now as a beer brewer who loves wild/sour ales I am adding Brettanomyces intentionally to my beers. :r

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Moses,

This is the same thing Parker claims, brett is "terroir". And I say BS! Here is the challenge I presented to him, which he obviously declined as he knew he is set up for utter failure. Same one goes to you:

I will set up a blind test, each and every bottle will be a single varietal (Cab, Merlot, etc.). Each and every one will be infected with brett. All I want you to tell me is what varietal is in every bottle, nothing more than that.

You won't be able to as brett will be the single most defining character in each wine. How is that "terroir"? How is brett in France differ from, say, bretty bottle made in Australia or Mongolia? They all smell and taste the same at that point and the only thing they will all show is brett. BTW, frernch are not the only "guilty" party, OR Pinots are notorious for brett as well (hmmm, they do claim "Burgundian" style).
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Seth,

Good points and ideas. Sterile filtering is the only safe option. And wineries in CA are known to banish bretty barrels from the floor altogether, brett spreads like wild fire and I've seen barrels literally carted out to the parking lot for the owner to remove them ASAP. At the facility I am one intern a few years back was doing punch downs (per owner's request) and decided to cut corners. Instead of cleaning the punch down tool (stainless steel) between each bin he simply went from bin to bin (hey, not his wine and not his problem, right?). You guessed it, many wines at the facility that year (this is a shared facility) experienced a problem with brett, I was the lucky one since that particular day I was there and told the idiot to stay away from my bins (as well as educating him on proper winery standards of cleanliness, too bad I caught it too late into the task and a good number of bins were already infected).

Brett in beer is a different ball game, many Belgian beers are great because of brett.

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Does brett end up in tobacco? Is that the "'barnyard" smell?

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Yes.

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Had a 2009 Montebuena Rioja tonight with a friend. Best wine I have had in a while. Very good wine. I made a point to write a note to myself to pick up a few bottles to put away. And I think I spent like $12, so good value wine. :tu

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Popped a 2007 Chateau Campuget Costieres de Nimes tonight. The nose is awesome on this wine. Sweet raspberry, and like a chocolate/earthy component too. I like it.

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Different Brett clones have different aroma characteristics, so Brett can't be regarded as a single entity (same as Sacc. cere., different clones express different levels of enzymes involved in flavor production).

To get Brett character in beer, you need to leave the beer to ferment many months to years, even if you innoculate. A Lambic we made (added 2 Brett clones) that had zero Brett character after 6 months had the defined character after 12. If you're making beer on a regular homebrew schedule (make-drink within a couple of months), the chance of getting Brett character accidentally is close to zero.

Oh, and I don't link the horse poo smell of a good Cuban with Brett ... they seem quite different aroma characteristics to me.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Cool Salon video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNrC3UFOGLY

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There are just 2 strains, basically, when it comes to wine, arrive with the grapes off the vineyard (they are basically the "bad" yeasts).

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Recent work on clonal variation and Brett flavors came from Vigentini et al FEMS yeast research 2008 & Renouf et al IJWR 2009.

From the second reference, "However, different B. bruxellensis strains exhibit varying characteristics, particularly their capacity to produce volatile phenols. This implies that certain strains are more prejudicial than others.".

Re: The Wine Thread
 

You can use Brett as a primary fermenter, instead of a 'normal' Sach strain and it will be done in a few weeks (or normal ale time frame, non-high gravity beer of course) if pitched at the right rate (higher than normal ale strains).
It does not give the same characteristics, i.e. the super low atennuation, as when used in conjunction with normal yeast strains in beers like Lambics, Flanders, etc but you can get very interesting Brett characteristics in all Brett fermented beers that are done in a short timeframe. Commercial examples like Mo Betta Bretta, Sanctification are made this way.

edit> Also, sorry oenophiles (myself included), I know this is the wine thread not the beer thread. :)

Also, I know there is no substitute for the wild/sour ales done the slow way. I have two oak barrels full of beer that has been aging for more than a year at this point because I love that style. They are my favorite beers by far.

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Party when they're done? :tu

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Mac get you some Hinnant Muscadine wine! Yooooowza!

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Found a new bottle I like, Meiomi Pinot Noir. I don't know all y'alls jargon, so I'll just say, to me a really good find. Clean and crisp and smooth. And at $19.99, a nice buy.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

my stash of $10/bottle Chateau Souverain Cabernet is getting just low enough that I'm starting to be depressed at the idea of either spending more or drinking crappy wine after this runs out...

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What is it about this wine that stood out to you? Besides the price value.

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It's normally $20. Pretty good CA cab even for $20, but a steal at $10.

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At Publix with my wife a day or two before Valentines and I see Heidsieck & Co Monopole Blue Top Brut, Champagne, pretty standard at around $30. They were selling them two for $30, basically buy one get one free, could not beleive it, and picked them up. At ~$30 I think its a pretty good value Champagne, but at $15 its a no brainer buy. :D

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I just met a Paso Robles winemaker named David James at a cigar lounge (Perfecto) here. There is some kind of Syrah Days or something like that going on and he was exhibiting an '05 he made. He stopped in for a cigar and opened up a bottle for tasting. Very nice. Good mixture of oak, no brett :D and a smooth long finish. You never know who you will meet.

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Every now and then that happens at Publix, Seth. Most people, myself generally included, aren't afficionados at much more than a thing or two and I think Champagne probbly fits that bill to a T. In other words, most people buying champagne at Publix are probably going to grab a bottle or two of $9 Korbel.

To make a long story short, a while back I stumbled upon Veuve Cliquot Ponsardin at Publix marked down to like $16 a bottle. Bought every one they had. Probably not tops on everyones list, but at that price, hells yeah.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Yep, I don't normally look through the wine section.....but I will now. :tu

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I would buy all of it too at that price. Good score! :tu

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Anyone into over-extracted Zinfandels? (Klinker Brick, anything Lodi) Looking to try something outside the usual suspects here.

-Thanks!

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Is anyone into Madeira? I have decided to delve into this wine a bit. I have read as much material on it that I could fine over the last few days. In some of the reviews I have read where that particular bottling goes very well with cigars. Now I am planing to pick up a bottle or two and try it out.

Any input and/or advise would be appreciated.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

There used to be a Madiera thread. That may have been before Oct '08 ;D

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I'm looking to pick up some whites from Loire Valley. Can anyone recommend some good readily available wines?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Nate, look for Huet. They make some dry ones as well as spectacular sweets.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Thanks, I'll look for some of their offerings.

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Loire Valley is "the place" for whites in France right?

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Also, Champalou (imported by Kermit Lynch) make some of the better wines there, both dry and sparkling at lower prices than Huet. Both of these are in Vouvray region.

If you're into sweet wines (after dinner and with cigars) along with those of Huet I'd also look into Domaine Baumard (or others from Quarts de Chaume/Coteaux du Layon regions).

On the dry Loires front, some of the better producers are located in Sancerre region: Marc Brediff and Henri Bourgeois both make great wines.

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Not sure I'd call Loire "the" place for whites in France :-) There is always Alsace region producing some spectacular whites, both dry and not. Bordeaux region makes some of the best whites as well, pricey, but incredible. And there are whites in Burgundy (Chardonnay) as well Rhone (Marsanne/Rousanne/Viognier grapes). It all depends on what you're in the mood for and how much your wallet can stand the abuse :-)

Re: The Wine Thread
 

The most expensive whites are from Burgundy, including Meursault and Chevalier-Montrachet. Rhone has some nice whites from CdP and Cote Rotie. Generally Meursault is 'top of the pops' when it comes to white wine in France. Loire has lost popularity with the consumer, but is a great value due to that.

It depends what you are in the mood for as TheRiddick has mentioned. White Burgs are being dumped by a lot of distributors as many consumers aren't spending $50+ on white wine like they use to. Some great deals in the bin ends locally for me.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

What do you want to know. I adore Madeira, probably more than any other wine, but can get pricy.

The best easy to find Madeiras under $100 are:

Broadbent 10 year Malmsey
Broabent 1996 Colheita
Blandy's Alvada
Rare Wine Company's "Historic Series"
D'Oliveiras 1968 Bual (about $150ish)

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Moses, I know you have a Euro-centric palate and cellar, but I am sure white wine producers in Bordeaux (and other regions in France) will disagree with you statement. When was the last time you looked at Sauternes prices? Or those of dry whites from Haut-Brion and such? They make very little (when compared to their red programs), and I only wish prices for Bordeaux whites would be in affordable category (some DRY whites reach $400 per bottle, although spectacular wines by any measure). I'd be a buyer, for sure. Most, if not all, white Burgs are affordable. North Rhone whites are more expensive than white Burgs, Chave comes to mind (Hermitage White, they start at $200 and quickly go up, that is if you can find a bottle) and there are others. Even Beaucastel white is more expensive than Burgs and its Southern Rhone.

White Burgs are much more known and more readily available, but price wise, they are not top of the heap. Bordeaux, North Rhone and Alsace are more expensive, in that order, with sweet Loires taking 4th place.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I wanted to stick with dry wines and keep it very general.