Re: The Wine Thread
 

Wow, spend a day away from the web and what do you see?

One thing at a time.

Lance,

I hate to say it, but if your "standard" for Pinot is David Bruce, I really need you to try a TON of REALLY GOOD Pinot, David Bruce is average at best, IMO.

Cab has never gone away, I think it will be the last grape to do so. Still popular and still pretty much a standard bearer for the most part since only a small percentage of consumers drink Pinot. Same as for David Bruce and Pinot, I'd say one can also state that Burrell School and Cab are not a combo wine geeks ever think about in the same sentence. Cab and Pride, Cab and Schrader, Cab and Maybach, Cab and a ton of other great producers in Napa proper (Paradigm, Etude, Whitehall Lane, etc, etc, etc).

Looks like I need to introduce you to some Pinot and Cab :-)
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David (MrReinder),

You are the first person I have ever seen refer to Petite Sirah as light. As a matter of fact it is pretty much bigger than any other varietal out there, makes Cabs look like mid bodied wine. When done right, PS is pitch black in the glass with no light coming through and it is pretty dense to boot.

Come to think of it, Syrah is next biggest if done that way. Bigger than Cab. Can and should be almost black in color. Have you tried Syrah from Carlisle, Siduri, Sine Qua Non, Alban? They will change your mind and most likely spoil you forever.
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Sideways, the movie.

Funny how consumers treat the movie as something special, Pinot wine makers hated it and still do for a number of reasons.

But the key point of the entire script/movie and a very BIG PUNCHLINE to underscore how stupid this "I hate f**ing Merlot" thing was went absolutely unnoticed by what, 99% of the viewers? After all that 2 hour anti-Merlot theme that Miles lives by, what is his most prized possession? Yep. A bottle of Cheval Blanc, a nice wine in its own right. But wait, how many people know that it is roughly one half MERLOT? An $1200+ bottle consumed alone, out of a paper cup with a Big Mac in tow.
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Moses,

Pinot when done right will be difficult to ID, been there done that. Burgundy lately is at pretty similar level of ripeness and extraction as is done here in CA. My tasting group did a tasting of the much ballyhooed 2005 vintage, about 6 weeks ago, some good names and regions/vineyards and yet, I would not spend a penny on any of the wines (we had about a dozen). I snuck in one of my own wines as a ringer, made from Monterey fruit that was barely ripe when picked, acidic and all, and this wine tasted super ripe in its flight (all double blind, of course). Burgs drank like acid extractions with no fruit, no flavor (unless one considers acidity a flavor and maybe some one dimensional cherry note) and too much oak, that is too much oak for the little fruit the wines had. Some had brett, not a surprise, of course.

I know you will tell me that the best stuff is expensive, and I also said that before, but until that day when I can afford to spend a $2000+ on a bottle of Pinot, some of the best CA Pinot in the $50-60 per bottle range will do just fine. Its an age old and tired by now argument, but all I can say is that outside of CA, and even here, most people really do not get to taste the best CA produces since the wines are made in small batches and go either to direct to mailing list or some key accounts.

Have you had any Rivers-Marie? Marcassin? August West? Sandler? Sea Smoke? Roessler? Older Dehlinger and Rochioli? All in the $30-80 range.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Greg, I mentioned that I like my local wineries because I get to know the winemakers and the harvest, etc. I get to buy some of the "one barrel was really great" type of wines from them. I don't have to mess around tasting strange things to find the good ones as often. David Bruce no longer runs his winery and I believe it has gone downhill since Ken Foster left. But he was the one who made the CA wine that beat the Burgundy in the 70s and again more recently. Santa Clara Valley has always produced great cabs. It used to be HUGE production. It seems like demand or mass popularity has decreased. These things seem to go in waves.

Man, that too much oak you talk about! Is it the barrel wood? I noticed it in a lot of different wines from a lot of different regions lately.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Yep, barrel oak :-) Basically, one way to get higher Parker and Laube scores. Many play that game, some refuse to (I do). Oak flavor and tannins are fine up to a point, but cross that line and all you get is vanilla milk shake flavor and drying tannins that bury the fruit. Show me a winery that proudly proclaims they use 100% new oak and I will show you a wine I do not like. Balance is key and lately I buy wines that are made same way I prefer making mine, oak program is carefully dialed in and only determined right at the time before we press (after figuring out just how much oak the fruit can handle, based on vintage conditions, fruit flavors as ferments finish and how much (max) tannin I want in finished wine). Different coopers and forests are used for each vineyard, some barrels play nice with vineard A and completely wreak havoc on vineyard B, so it takes some time to figure out what works. Many buy barrels on "name recognition" never spending time to really analyze if they actually work for the fruit sources. Its an ever evolving process of you want it done right, wine barrels is whole new ballgame and science.

I hear you on David Bruce, my comment was on his recent vintages. About 4 years ago a number of us congregated for a weekend soire at Pisoni Estate, toured the 3 vineyards and drank a lot. Brian Loring brought a case of Pinots he bought the day before, one bottle in particular blew all of us away. Yep, David Bruce, made from an up and coming (then) vineyard right below Garys' Vineyard, simply amazing stuff. Too bad they could not reproduce it again. I also tasted through David Bruce Petites about 3 years ago, but even though I could tell the fruit was great, the wines were "killed" IMO by the use of too much new oak, American to boot, which simply did not play nice with the fruit. But that's a real travesty with most of Petite producers, Petite by definition, has plenty of tannic structure via small berry/thick skin ratio and forcing yet another layer of tannin and oak flavors only muddles the whole deal. If you look at the best made CA Petites, all of them are made with neutral oak: Pride (no longer made), Switchback Ridge, Corte Riva, Outpost, Robert Foley. I'll add mine to the list since I learned from these guys. This is the premier Petite shelf, bar none. Once you move away from that, you start seeing new oak in spades and in a blind tasting the difference is profound.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I have been looking to get a few nice bottles of wine, trying to expand a little bit, and have been shopping around for quality and also value.
Got a question for the Champagne people. Taittinger seems to be a value play, considering the Brut Millesime 1990 vintage is around $100. How is there stuff? Would it be better to get a younger vintage from Pol Roger, Krug, DP, Salon, Delamotte ect..

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Funny, was just reading through this thread and said to myself, I used to really like David Bruce, had some of his Pinot about 12-14 years ago and it was very good. Tried a bottle about a year ago and it was middling at best and certainly not worth what I paid. I thought it was my tastes changing. Good to know that the winemaker is different and it's not all in my head. :tu

I've become a firm believer in wine club mailing lists. When I go tasting somewhere - Long Island and Lodi last two times I went, I try to get on the list of the vineyard whose wines I enjoy the most. Great stuff there, and a substantial amount of it not available to the general public, especially if you get into the smaller wineries, or those who only produce in smaller batches.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

The Taittnger Comte de Champagne is one my favorite Champagnes bar none and I have had plenty of heavy hitters. Taittenger has a lemon curd flavor that is just sublime. I can't talk enough about it. I'd imagine the 1990 is Brute Millesime is a home run for $100. I am not a huge Dom Perignon fan unless it's old; try the Oenotheque bottles if you can find for good price. It's a little sweet for me, Cristal- expensive but awesome, bottles can vary from each vintage, the best have a pronounced Parmaesan Cheese taste that is really intense. I really love Philliponant. Their Royal Reserve was voted best Champagne we had a cigar/Champagne tasting that may be on this forum or ICC. Everyone loved it among like 10 good Champagnes and is around $50.00. That would be my pick for under $100.

Champagne is personal. Some like old wine with an old dose. Old wine with new dose. New wine with new dose... I am not an expert hardly on Champagne, just fortunate that a friend of mine is a national expert and sold more top end bottles of Champagne than just about anyone in USA for the last few years.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Very nice! I will also take a look at Philliponat. :banger

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Most places have Philipponnat Royale Reserve for $30:tu

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I guess we know what you'll be drinking this weekend. Lucky you. If you can find the Comte de Champagne (under $150) you're in for a real treat.

Henriot vintage is good one to look for as well. I like Cremants with age, but that is a different thread.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Wow, it's been a long time for this thread. I guess I will post my recent buys.

2005 Chateau Reignac Bordeaux
2007 Chateau de Campuget Costieres de Nimes Rhone
2008 Thierry & Guy Fat Bastard Merlot

I'm really looking forward to the 2005 bordeaux. The other two bottles were recommended by a friend.

Anyone else buy any bottles lately?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

My wine pallet is getting bi-polar. If it's good or very good it goes on the good side. If it's not it goes on the bad side. I buy one and not the other and don't care much any more except to notice when one really stands out. But wine is always changing, even the same wine. Worse than cigars. I just give up. That said, I'm always buying some. Tasted some in Cambria from a Paso Robles winery near there call Black Hand that was good and bought some. Can't remember the grape. I have about 300 bottles at any one time and can never remember the story behind them all.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Have you had anything from Priorat recently? That's another area I'm looking at getting into.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

If you like Priorat, which is pretty much Grenache grape, you should try some Grenache based offerings from CA and Australia. Grenache is as expressive as Pinot Noir and Barolo.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Just seeing this thread for the first time. Don't have time to read through everything right now, but looking forward to checking it out. I love wine, and have for a couple years now, but really know nothing about it (other than I like to drink it) Pinot, Cabs and Petite Syrahs are usually my go to wines :tu

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Can you recommend any producers?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I would love to start this idea. I'm up to drink whatever. I guess let's start simple. I'm sure everyone can grab a Cali Cab. What are your thoughts?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Picked up some more wine today. I'm just trying to expand my palate and try as much as possible. I picked these up fairly cheap.
2007 Rosenblum Zinfandel
2007 Robert Mondavi Private Cab
2007 Ruffino Chianti Superiore

Re: The Wine Thread
 

been on a champagne kick lately

2000 dom perignon
1996 bollinger RD
bollinger NV
nicolas feuallatte NV
lanson rose
piper hiedsieck rose sauvage

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Anything made in France that has a decent review.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Priorat is in Spain.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

There's plenty of Grenache in France; Languedoc-Roussillon, Cotes du Rhone and Gigondas have plenty of Grenache based wines.

Perhaps something from Beaucastel or St. Cosme he might fancy?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I thought that Priorat is a region in Spain??

On a side note, I did buy some Bogle Petite Sirah from 2008 along with another 2005 Bordeaux, Clos Marsalette.

The Bogle has been a hit for some guys in this thread. I may try their Merlot or Cab.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Or their Zin. It's at our Costco.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Great prices from Bogle too.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Several good cheap brands are Barefoot and Yellow Tail. Usually about $6-7 bucks a bottle. They have Merlot, Cabs , Sauv, Moscatos and several others. Worth a try!

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Definately will try some of these suggestions.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Moses,

Aren't CdPs (Beaucastel and St. Cosme in this case) blends with varying degrees of Grenache in them? Priorat is pure Grenache, and new American oak barrels to boot (even winder flavor variation). They are different animals and as much as I like Grenache blends, 100% Grenache when done right is magic.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Spend $5-6 more and you can find some good stuff. Yellow Tail to me is like the BudMillerCoors of the beer world. There's no "terroir" with Yellow Tail. I know many people like it, and if that's what tastes good to them, that's no problem with me.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Ok, some tasting notes on the 2008 Thierry & Guy Fat Bastard Merlot: (100% Merlot, from France, not sure the exact region)

First off, great rich red color in the glass.
On the nose, I'm smelling ripe cherries, strawberries, hint of cream(vanilla maybe), and raisins.
On the palate, up front there are sour cherries, ripe red fruit, and some earthy flavors.
To be honest, this wine drops off quickly. I like wines that are strong on the mid-palate, and have a good finish. This wine has decent stuff up front, but you loose the flavors fairly quick. I have had $20 merlot from Cali thats been worse. Not a terribly merlot. I think this bottle was $12.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I am sure there are posts on Yellow Tail somewhere in this thread, wine is not the first thing that comes to mind when discussing YT, their pride in the chem lab size and effort is. I'd rather drink Bud/Miller/Coors before I would even consider drinking Yellow Tail. Or stick with water.

At YT price point much better wines, real wines, can be had from Fetzer, which is a major step up in quality, IMO.

Bogle, Sebastiani are very affordable and great producers. Lower priced Rosenblum offerings are seriously good as well (Chateau Le Paw?).

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Sounds like you were describing a Cab not a Merlot.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Fetzer makes a nice gewurztraminer, I agree. I have found some of the Robert Mondavi products close to same price at YT and to be much better. They make a meritage, which of course is just a bordeaux blend, but my wife and I find for something less then 15 a bottle is very drinkable IMO. But as before, each person has a different taste, and of course someone who has been drinking wine for longer period usually has a dryer taste. Hey I am someone who enjoys a petite verdot in a single varital, and btw that is a wine I think stands up to a nice smoke very well. :)

Re: The Wine Thread
 

How are the higher end Mondavi offerings?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Rob,

When talking about YT it is not a question of dry or not, its simply that the wine is a chemical concoction produced by careful dialing in in a chem lab. Their own proud admission and marketing point.

Actually, I do like off dry wines, whites in particular, with spicy food (Oriental) as well as after dinner (Quarts de Chaume in particular and Pedro Ximinez with cigars, there is no better pairing, period).
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Nate,

Higher end Mondavi Cabs are good wines, but not as good as their competition at same price points. If you want to try a GREAT Napa Cab that is still flying under the radar for a long time now, buy a bottle of Paradigm. Best bargain around, IMO. If not in IL market they do sell direct AFAIK.

An interesting blend you may want to try is Parador, the components (varietals) sound like they should not work together, but the blend works really well, IMO.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I was just making a comparison, not saying one was dryer then another, as far as the cab, Kendall Jackson makes one about the same price as the higher end Mondavi in which I think is a much better cab. I was just saying that for the under 15 dollar range, I can even get a French "45" which is even a nice "steak" wine, as a matter of fact... Hmmmm I might just have to pop over a 45 tonight.... :)

And as far as an off dry white my wife and I enjoyed a nice Moscato from the finger lakes with mexican which I thought went well together.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

My favorite budget wine is fetzer. I can buy it at my local walmart liquor store for 6.97. Fetzer actually has a great pricepoint for the quality. I prefer their chard, cab, and Pinot noir.

Had an okay yt merlot. Not something I would buy to appreciate though.

A great Pinot noir at a decent price is bogle. 16.99 locally. I believe the only other bogle Ive had is the Shiraz.

My favorite mid range cab is frei brothers. But that is 22.99 iirc. I started buying it when walmart had it for $16.00.
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Re: The Wine Thread
 

While not strictly a wine, I got a bottle of Fairbanks Cream Sherry for Christmas. Tasty stuff. Smoke, raisins, honey are flavors I get from it. Moderately sweet. It has a touch of bitterness though. I could drink a lot of this if it didn't have so much alcohol.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Under $7, there's plenty of wines from Spain, France and Portugal that offer terrior and authenticity. Tempranillo "Rioja's", Dao's from Portugal, or general Pinot Noir from France are all great on a budget. CA is turning out some decent Cab's on the low end too.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I'd like to pick up a few Chateauneuf du Pape wines. I can't remember ever having any, but I've been looking around for some stuff in the $20-30 range and it seems these wines are priced fairly high. Can anyone name of some good labels in that range? Also, I've noticed that CdP produces almost all red wine, and I Rarely see white coming out of CdP. How are the whites?

Re: The Wine Thread
 

2007 is a good vintage for CdP. Vatican, Perrin, Guigal and Telegraph are popular. White CdP is actually popular and worth trying if you're into whites.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I can get a lot of 2007 CdP. How's Telegramme? My local wine store has it just under $30, I may pick a bottle up.

It's a second label to the Telegraphe that you mentioned, Moses. Produced from younger vines, less than 30 years old.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

'07 CdP's need some time to decant if you plan to drink now. Consider buying some Gigondas; another Rhone wine for less money. St. Cosme makes a nice one, as Guigal.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Pretty much anything in Kermit Lynch portfolio, all the wines he imports should have his sticker on them. Some are great values and priced fairly low.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Picked up a few bottles today,

2007 Telegramme Chateauneuf Du Pape
2007 Domaine les Pallieres "Les Terraces de Diable"
2008 Joseph Drouhin Cote de Nuits Villages


The first two wines are imported by Kermit Lynch.
Has anyone read his book, Adventures on the Wine Route: A Wine Buyer's Tour of France

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Picked up a bottle of 2006 Robert Mondavi Oakville cab yesterday, it was only $19:tu

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Could never get into drinking wine...could not get past the vinegar smell. Every wine that I tried, had that smell. And then a friend turned me onto Moscato...WOW!!! :dr :dr :dr Like drinking fresh grapes.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I associate Paso Robles with Zinfandel and Petit Sirah, so when I see a new one I am not afraid to try it. Our Costco has a 2008 Zin from a Paso winery called Opolo named Summit Creek Zin. It is rich, fruity, velvety, and high in alcohol (16.4%) though you can't tell it from the taste. I expected it to be porty but it's not. A very good expression of a Paso Robles Zin for less than $20. I may go back and get a case.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

CdP that you might want to consider picking up as well

Pegau
Beaucastel
vieux donjon
Clos st jean
Pasquie

Re: The Wine Thread
 

some purchases this weekend

(1) 1999 bollinger grande annee
(4) NV Tarlant Brut Rose Zero
(1) Nino Franco Prosecco
(1) 2002 Veuve Cliquot

Re: The Wine Thread
 

had some friends over last night and popped a few corks

from what I can remember from last night.

nino franco prosecco
tarlant brut rose zero
iniskillin sparkling icewine
some Ontario white wine that I liked but can't remember the name
2007 outpost howell mountain cab
2003 Neal cab
2004 arcadian pinot (can't remember the vineyard)
2001 Dunn Howell Mountain
2005 CLiff Lede SLD
Yalumba muscat stickie

Moving gently today, walking softly, water is my best friend.