Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Well, that makes one! :tu

Update soon.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

OK, I lied. I was midway thru my post when 9/10ths of it disappeared, and now my game has started. Screw it . . . do your own update today. Me, I got irons in the fire. :r

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

I've not seen a lot of the tourney action the last couple of days, just highlights, but there have been some good ones, it appears. Big Least Tourney is VERY interesting, and the Bearcats are playing Ricky P's Cards right now for the title, and both playing for a decent Dance seed; I think they'll both get in now. Mick's Maniacs are looking dangerous.

So Kansas goes down, and Mizzou wins the Big 12 Tourney; does KU lose the #1 seed to the Tigers now????? I would think so, personally.

SEC shaping up to be a Cats victory tomorrow, but Vandy getting to the title game is definitely a possible monkey wrench.

So, did the Tarheels get help with some calls/non-calls? I was working and did not see, but Gottfried is not a happy camper. Oh, and dook losed to FSU again :r:r:r.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Oh yeah, I saw a quick byte on the Auburn point-shaving scheme, and definitely agree this is HUGE. Definitely death penalty-type stuff for the Tigers. Really sad.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

OK, so UK overall #1 and a 1 seed, even after the "gimme" game to Vandy today. Horrible game, and the Cats better wake up quick.

UNC gets a 1 seed, and though it surprises me after the loss today, I don't know who else t would go to. Congrats, Poet!

I can see 'Cuse getting the 1 seed, and I guess the same for the "other" MSU.

A little disappointed in Murray State's 6 seed, as we were all hoping for a 4, but it's still our (or any other OVC team that I'm aware of) best seeding ever. Gotta do some lookup on Colorado State now. Also trying to score tickets, as they have us playing just a couple of hours away in Louisville, which was nice!!!!

Looking forward to an exciting week.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

MIZZOU BIG XII CHAMPIONS!!!!

Woot Woot

What a game and what a way to leave the BIG XII.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

So can we leave the ACC? I mean seriously, this(note: NSFW due to language, also change the stars to the f word if you want to read, don't know why they had to use it in the page link) on top of the tape incident in the BC game(theres a link to that story in the linked page). Here's hoping we don't have any ACC refs in the tourney.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Instead of regressing to talk about action that's already past, I feel it is best to move on to the tournament now. OK, so every 1-seed save for the Spartans lost in their conference tournaments, and some teams felt they got worst seeds (or their nemesis got better seeds) than they had earned, but now's the time has come to get over it and strap them up. Survive, and advance. Yet I'll take a while to address a few of the things mentioned above:

The Big East tourney is always a good show, which I appreciate. But so were virtually all of the tourneys, and not just The Big Boys. Look at, for instance, the A-10, where the Bonnies got themselves in by running the table. My only problem with these tourneys stems from my personal history as an ACC guy. For 30 years we were the only conference with a tourney, and everybody called us fools and idiots for doing this. We, well we'd just smile and say "OK, whatever. You don't get it, and that's just fine. You do your thing, we'll do ours." Now all but the Ivy has a league tournament, giving some in-conference Cinderella a shot at the Dance, and everybody and their cousin crows about how great it is, especially their OWN particular league tourney. Me? I'm left with pretty much the same reaction . . . "OK, whatever."

I felt Kansas came into THEIR tourney with an inside shot at a 1-seed, and much like Carolina would potentially secure it by making the Big12 championship game. Nota bene, I said MAKING the final, not WINNING it. As evidence, see UNC. Meanwhile, the Spartans needed to not only make, but win the Big Ten to grab that spot. Ohio State was likely a little lower on the chart, and probably a 2-seed regardless, while Mizzou's poor RPI and SoS put them out of the picture despite their league success. All that being said, I don't believe there's any difference whatsoever between a 1- and a 2-seed, and no significance difference between these and a spot on the 3-line. Regardless, you still have to win your early games, then knock off the same guys to get to the Final Four, so who cares? It's bragging rights, that's all, and with the way the NCAA schedules first-round games close to home for the marquee teams anyway (the Heels are the top-seed in the MidWest, and open in Greensboro, for instance) it's no big wuff.

Joe, I'm not sure your Racers deserve a 4-seed, but maybe a 5 would have been more fair than a 6-spot. But as above, you win your first game or two, and where's the problem? Again, you gotta win your games, no matter who you face, so just be ready to play ball, and forget about the rest.

Jake, congratulations to the Missouri Tigers for taking the Big12Minus2 Conference tournament title, and leaving that sinking ship in style. ;) Good luck in the Dance. You should not need much against Norfolk State, but you may need some against either the Gators or the Cavaliers in your next game. With your guard-heavy style, neither will be a cakewalk, believe me.

And Bear, that link led me to a page that was "no longer available", but I'm assuming you're still whining about what you thought were a few non-calls in that UNC/NCSU game. I'm tempted to merely remind you that you got your bid (even if you had to sweat it out until the very final end yesterday), and that you didn't have that bid before the ACC tourney started, so why are you still bellyaching when you should be preparing for Larry's SDSU Aztecs instead. But let me point out that it was the Wolfpack who decided to turn that game into a hard-contact contest, and who started fouling hard durnig player introductions. Whining about a call or two that did not go your way is like those two former 'Pack players who thought they had the right to interfere with the scorers' bench while they cussed out the officials, then whined about the insult after they were kicked out of the arena. You want to leave the ACC? OK, if that's gonna be the @$$hole attitude you want to bring back into the league, one that hasn't been a part of the conference since Frank McGuire took the Gamecocks out of the mix, then go join the Big Ten, where muggings are common. :rolleyes:

Maybe tomorrow we can actually talk about some hoops, OK?

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Heh, a 4 seed, at a 12 ranking would have been SWEET, but yeah, a 6 is fair. I've noted before that I thought we were no better than a 18-20 ranking during the season, even w/ the St. Mary's win. It is pretty fantastic for this team to get the best seed ever for the OVC ( I think). Unfortunately, the last, best seed we had was an 8, and a game against a Rhode Island team we should have popped, but we were tagged in the nose instead. As Herm would say, "You PLAYYYY to WIN the Game!!!!" :D:r.

Best thing is, we play in Louisville Thursday, and hopefully Saturday. But...Colorado State is coming in to win too, and the boys gotta play their game like there's no tomorrow. Can't wait to see it in person!

Looks to me like a good Dance is coming. I still am not sure I like the format for the play-ins. Why the mix of 16's and 14's and such-like? Make all the play-in winners get the 16 seed to play the 1 seed on Thursday/Friday.

And DaBear; welcome to college ball. SEC has horrible refs that make poor calls. The OVC is in the same boat, and so are most of the conferences. Some good refs out there too, but some are sub-standard, and some are maybe even rotten on purpose. I don't know how to fix it though. I would NOT want to ref.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Wasn't even complaining about the calls in the game. Hell if we would have been able to pass the ball the last 15 damn seconds we would have had at least gotten it to OT.

The article is about one of the refs yelling back at Gottfried after he yelled "Thats a charge!" on one of the no-calls with "Shut your f***ing a** up." I would rather not be attending and supporting a school that is a member of an athletic conference that allows its refs to behave in that manner.

I wasn't even going to bring up the whole Karl Hess thing, but since you went ahead and did that for me, lets go ahead and discuss that. Yes, I will concede Hess has a right to eject any fans he deems belligerent, its part of the risk of going to any sporting event as a fan. But, it is entirely unprofessional to not follow your own protocol when doing so. Also, I would like to note that Gugliotta and Corchiani used no profanity when yelling at the refs as your post indicates. I can guarantee that Hess heard worse coming from the student section and did nothing. I'm not arguing he singled out Gugliotta and Corchiani, just that he used them as an example, and in doing so had them removed from the game in an entirely improper manner.

Then lets throw on top the whole shoes issue in our game against BC which just adds more fuel to the fire of how the refs obviously came in with a grudge, however light. They wore tape on their shoes with the initials KH for Karl Hess for ONLY the opening match of the tourney, us vs BC, and took it off after the end of the game. If it was meant as a form of protest against the ACC and how the reprimanded Hess, then that tape would have stayed on the entire tournament, or until the ACC told them to remove it. The fact that it was removed as soon as our game wrapped up and the refs came back and reffed the following game minutes later without the tape is an entirely classless act and demonstrates a blatant bias, despite being employed to not have a bias.

Jcruse, CSU is comin in hot, but I feel like they'll fizzle out after that first game. I've got New Mexico as my sleeper to sneak into the Final 4, that whole bracket they're in is weak and could be anyone's to take. I don't think Syracuse will make it past the first weekend, especially after how they played in the Big East tourney, though that could just be the part of me that hates Cuse talking. :r

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Bear, I apologize if I jumped on you for misguided reasons, but as I said your link took me nowhere, so fault me for jumping to conclusions based on a false assumption. I'd agree in principle about the Googs and Corchiani issue, for in principle their verbosity would justify the referees throwing about 9000 people out of Cameron Indoor Stadium each and every game. But specifically, I was led to understand that they leaned far over the scorer's table between the men trying to do their job in order to voice their objections, which to me is unacceptable. As for holding onto grudges and expressing protests well after the fact, I've never been much of a fan of such attitudes, even if I understand their motivation, since it seems poor sportsmanship. That holds for my own team as well. Gerald Henderson was roundly booed in his return to Chapel Hill the year after he broke Tyler Hansbrough's nose, which was fine, but the signs in the stands that put a target on him went too far. Hell, it's just a game, brothers and sisters. Calm down.

Now, I do agree that a ref should not react in such a vulgar manner to a protest by a coach. My only question, which maybe you can answer, would be how hard had Gottfried been riding the refs all game. It was a rough contest, at least by ACC standards, with a lot of fouls called on both teams. If the ref blew up so badly with this merely being an understandable objection by Gottfried at a critical point of the game, that's one thing. However, if the coach had been riding him all afternoon, screaming and yelling at each and every call that did not go his way, or maybe wasn't made at all, it may not forgive the ref's vulgarity but it could somewhat explain it.

Can we get to some new news now, and leave the other stuff alone for now at least? The biggest news today is, sadly for Syracuse fans, not the fact that action starts this evening in Dayton with the so-called "play-in" first round action. It has been announced that starting center for the Orange, Fab Melo, has been declared ineligable for play throughout the entire NCAA tournament. This suspension has come from the university, not the NCAA, and the reason has yet to be released. However, the young man was suspended for (I believe) 3 games earlier this year for academic reasons. We cannot assume this is the case here, but it does indicate it may be a possibility.

Now if you know me, and have read my posts here throughout the year, you won't be surprised to hear I did not give Syracuse much of a chance to make the Final Four even before this announcement. Partly this is due to the fact that, despite the fact they have a number of very good athletes, they do not seem to have one true stud they can count on to get them a basket when they really really need one. But mainly it is because I do not trust that zone of theirs to fair especially well against quality opposition in "one-and-done" games night after night throughout tournament play. Historically, it hasn't, and I see no good reason to think it would this year, expecially without a Carmelo on the team. Now that they won't have another Melo available . . . well, I hope you haven't filled out your bracket yet.

This makes the third hit the Orange has taken this season. It began with the child molestation charges against ass't. coach Bernie Fine, then took another hit a week or so back with the story about former players failing drug tests without receiving the suspensions the university rules demanded. Now, coming into the tourney, only UK has played better as a team than the Orange (OK, Joe, maybe your Racers, but we're sort of talking apples and, uh, oranges here). Will this third strike against them destroy the team chemistry they have built all year, or will they refocus and fight even harder to overcome all the distractions and adjustments? I'd vote for the former, but it will be interesting to see what transpires. Specifically, I can't give UNC-Asheville much more than a puncher's shot at knocking them out, thus becoming the first 16-seed to take out a 1-seed, but their next game against either K-State or Southern Miss might be pretty interesting. Down the road, there's potential opponents like Vandy, Wisconsin, Florida State, and Ohio State. That ain't easy, even at full strength.

Maybe I'll get a chance to get back here and talk tonight's games, but for now I have some work to do . . . dammit.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

There are actually two NCAA games tonight, as you likely know, and so let's talk about them a bit.


Mississippi Valley State vs. Western Kentucky = These two mid-majors will battle for the right to get spanked by the UK Wildcats come Thursday. Hey, on the bright side, one of them will get a win in the NCAAs, right? The Delta Devils won the SWAC, and if they can survive and advance this evening it shall not be the first time this season they have faced top-flight opposition. Already this year they played Notre Dame, UNC, Arkansas, Northwestern, Ole Miss, Florida, and Wisconsin. That's a tough non-conference schedule by anyone's account. Of course, they lost them all, but at least they know what it is like to face tough matchups. The SWAC is not that tough, and the only quality non-conference win they got was against Tennessee State, the school that spoiled Joe's Racers perfecto. As for the Hilltoppers, they stunk up the Sun Belt all year long, but made a run to take the conference tourney and snag the automatic as a sub.500 team. Oddly, their only quality win this year was against Tenn. State too, but their "quality" losses were not as good, being to St. Joe's, VCU, Louisville, and Joe's Racers of Murray State. Western Kentucky has a better program historically, but I feel that the Delta Devils may have the better team this year. Still, I admit I don't know enough about either squad to give you a gimme here.


BYU vs. Iona = Nor do I here either, though again I am confident that the WCC is better than the MAAC. The Cougars finished 3rd in that league, yet still got the at-large, while the Gaels finished 1st in the regular season but failed in their tourney, and was a surprise to many that they got the at-large in the first place. That should tell you something. Speaking of Gaels, those from St. Mary's, as well as Gonzaga and San Francisco, give you some idea how tough the WCC could be. BYU had good wins over Nevada, Oregon, Utah, and Virginia Tech, with the Lobos being the only one that truly impresses me, while they lost to Wisconsin and Baylor outside the league. Iona lost to Purdue and Marshall, both a step down from those Ls above, with good wins over Maryland, St. Joe's, Richmond, Vermont, and those Nevada Lobos again. At the start of the season many experts picked Iona to be the main Cinderella story this year, and I give them a fair chance of surviving a Fredette-less BYU team. On the other hand, I do believe the Cougars have faced some consistently tougher competition, so they won't back down either. Flip a coin, enjoy the game, then wait to see who gets a shot at Marquette on Thursday.


If you have any insight, input, questions, objections, complaints, whines, boasts, whatever, feel free to pipe up. And if you wanna talk any NIT or other alphabet-soup tournament, just say so. Until later then, enjoy.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Hilltoppers advance on a wild last 5 minutes, with WKU coming back from double-digit deficit to win. Pretty exciting start...only wish it was carried on basic cable so we could see it too -(P.

Yeah, I'm with both of you on 'Cuse. One story on #1 seeds has been that the SEC has not helped UK prepare for the Dance this year, but I say 'Cuse has a similar issue. With Melo now out, it's gonna be rough. K State will not be easy for them.

I'd LOVE to score tickets for game 2 Thursday, after Murray's game, but ain't EVEN gonna spend that much $$$! Will be listening on the drive home, I guess.

And I'm with ya, DaBear, on there being no excuse for a ref to go back on a coach like that for arguing a call. Coaches get tossed for talking to refs in such a manner, and it should go both ways.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Slightly worried about my hometown team the CUSE since Fab Mello wont be playing in the tourney. We were a bad rebounding team with him and without him its really going to be an exploited weakness. Hopefully they can shoot the ball well compared to how they have been shooting recently to make up for it.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

For some damn reason the nice weather has brought out all the nutz and bozos, so I've been pressed for time. Two very strange games last night:


Western Kentucky 59 - Mississippi Valley State 58 = The Delta Devils had this in the bag, with a 16-point lead and under 5 to play. Well, I guess an ugly loss was appropriate, as this was an ugly game by both teams, with the possible exception of the late run by the Hilltoppers.

BYU 78 - Iona 72 = In contrast, this was 2 halves of very good hoops, albeit from opposing sides. The Gaels came out like a vintage Loyola-Marymount or UNLV team and ran the Cougars off the court, building a huge 25-point lead. Then they ran themselves out of gas, and BYU made the adjustments on both ends to erase the largest deficit in NCAA history to advance.


Tonight's games:


Lamar vs. Vermont = This has the potential to be another close one, and will decide who gets to challenge my Tar Heels on Friday. Pat Knight does not have the players his daddy used to get, and isn't the floor general Bobby was either, but he does seem to have inherited Papa's sparkling personality. Outside of league play, his Cardinals have "good" losses against quality competition like Louisville, Ohio State, Kentucky, and George Mason, but their best wins were with Charlotte and Tennessee Tech. The Catamounts lost to such guys as South Florida, Harvard, and Saint Louis, but toss into that a terrible loss to the Binghamton Bearcats, who had only 2 Ws all year. VT did get a nice win against ODU, so give them that. As I'm not about to pick who I want UNC to face, I'll leave that up to you.

South Florida vs. California = Now this could actually be a pretty decent game, like that BYU/Iona one. The Bulls had no good wins outside the Big East, and considering how Cincy and Louisville played at times this year I'm not sure how good those Ws actually were. Yet they did lose to some good teams, like ODU, VCU, Kansas, and Southern Miss, so they learned some things from that. As for the Golden Bears, I count myself amongst those who don't believe the Pac-12 is as abysmal as many others feel. True, I see no quality wins outside the league for Cal, but losing to Missouri, San Diego State, and UNLV counts for something in my book . . . especially when you consider that Mizzou had them as about the ONLY "tough" non-conference opponent, whereas Cal at least tried to play somebody else. I'm leaning towards the Bulls here, but it would not shock me if the Bears could shock the nation. Remember last year the Pac-10 was bad-mouthed all year, yet did pretty well in the NCAAs.


If I get a chance I'll come back to talk of early action scheduled tomorrow, when the fun kicks off for real. But if I don't get that chance, I hope you'll do what I plan on starting noon tomorrow, and enjoy.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

I can't wait to get home so I can watch a ton of basketball tonight on the big screen!

Anyone predicting any upsets for the rest of Thursday's games? I thing Long Beach State will upset New Mexico, and I could see Colorado challenging UNLV, but I don't know if I'd call that an upset.

It looks like Syracuse is struggling without Melo against NC-Asheville. Like a lot of people, I had them losing early...but certainly not this early. Game is a long way from over, but they certainly shouldn't be down 4 at the half.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Well, what do you consider an upset? Is that a 6-11 game? From what I saw last weekend against Arizona, I can't give Colorado much of a shot against UNLV. How about 5-12? Can Harvard knock Vandy out? As psycho as the Comms have been this year, I could see the Crimson giving them all they can handle, especially if Vandy has another of their off nights . . . which they have had too often. Or maybe VCU over Wichita State? That may be your best shot at a 12 beating a 5 right there, though I don't expect VCU will make a run to the Final Four again this tourney, like they did last year. But they are confident, and they have been there before, so who knows?

I would expect that the Orange will come back in the 2nd half to survive their scare against UNC-A, but don't put all the onus on Melo being out. Not only have I expressed my doubts about that zone getting one through a tourney for YEARS now, you need take note that the Bulldogs have played some pretty good non-conference opponents this season, and are not intimidated by the fact. They started off at NCSU, hosted UNC-CH, visited U Conn and Tennessee, and played host to Charleston and Utah. If nothing else, they've seen some "big" names on the fronts of jerseys before today.

Update shortly.

P.S. - As for Long Beach vs. NM, I will point out that the 49ers lost at my Tar Heels by only 6, and won at Xavier by 10, so I agree they have a shot. At the moment, 8 left in the 1st, the Lobos are only up a point.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

With 4 1/2 left, Marquette is on the verge of putting the game against BYU out of reach. Maybe I'll have a final before I finish this, but as for last night:


Vermont 71 - Lamar 59 = The Catamounts take care of business in a very competent manner, and move on to face UNC tomorrow.

South Florida 65 - California 54 = So maybe I was wrong about the Pac-12 being under-rated, though after seeing how lousy that Colorado/Arizona championship game in the league finals was, I have no good excuse. On the other hand, I guess the Golden Bears did do pretty good at making their loss somewhat respectable, considering they scored only 13 stinkin' points in the first half. :rolleyes:


In afternoon action today:


Murray State 58 - Colorado State 41 = Congratulations to Joe's Racers for knocking off the Rams to advance, though CSU helped them a ton in the 2nd half with bad shots and TOs. As this is the first time I've seen Joe's boys all year, I have no idea if this game was typical of their play or not. But from what I saw they have very nice perimeter defense, a few pretty effective scorers, and the hustle to force some action and create some of those loose balls. On the other hand, I have to say that, if you assume that Hornung kid is not the new Kurt Rambis, I fear that if they don't learn to box out a little better some team down the road is gonna kill them off the glass.

Kansas State 70 - Southern Miss 64 = The Manhattan 'Cats made enough good plays down the stretch to edge out a feisty SM team, who made enough late plays of their own to keep the issue in question until under a minute to go. All in all, a pretty good game on both sides.

Wisconsin 73 - Montana 49 = Both teams normally want a glacial style of play, but for the Badgers to rack up that many points . . . well, for them that's Runnin' Rebels scoring. I didn't get to see this, but they must have cleaned up on the defensive boards off Montana misses to get that many possessions, and maybe even a few breakaways.

Louisville 69 - Davidson 62 = Here's another game I did not see, but I'm not surprised the Wildcats gave Pitino so good a fight. Firstly, they have a pretty good team themselves. Secondly, the Cards have played down to their opponents all year long, so why should that be any different today?


As I figured, I now have that final:


Marquette 88 - BYU 68 = The Cougars fell 'way behind the Iona Gaels in their play-in game, yet came back to grab a victory. Well, they could not do the same today. The Golden Eagles jumped on them early and often, and kept the pressure going well enough to cruise into their match-up with Joe's Racers on Saturday. So Joe, if your guys really truly believe they should have gotten a higher seed, they can prove it then by knocking Marquette out of The Dance. From what I saw, that won't be easy.


Syracuse has taken control of their game against UNC-A, and are up 8 with 2:10 to go. It ain't over, but it is looking better for the Orange faithful. All the other games are too early and too close to even mean anything yet.


Back later.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

I use the betting line to gauge an upset. If the spread is around 3-4 or less, I consider it a mild upset. 4-5 or more, an upset. Sometimes just a higher seeding isn't indicitive of an upset, IMO.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

SDSU is a 6 seed and they are 2 point dogs to NC State......

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Exactly. :tu

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

We've already talked some about later games today, like the VCU/Wichita St. one, and some of them don't much interest me all that much. Loyola MD vs. Ohio State? South Dakota State vs. Baylor? Even in-state "rivals" Western Kentucky vs. UK doesn't do it for me. But there are a few that look to have some potential, such as:


West Virginia vs. Gonzaga = Both schools have had better teams in the past, yet both still have some fairly decent players who can ball a bit. This could be a lot of fun, and may go down to who executes in the last 2 minutes.

U Conn vs. Iowa State = The Huskies have talent from the neck down, and air from the neck up. Plus, they don't fair well out of their comfort zone, which is no more than 30 miles from Storrs. Meanwhile the Cyclones have faced tough competition, and has had good success against it, beating the like of Kansas, Missouri, Baylor, and K-State (2X!). I'm looking for one of two things here; an all-out war, or the Cyclones blowing the Huskies right out of the Bucket.

New Mexico State vs. Indiana = Don't get me wrong, as I'm not gonna pick a 13 to knock off a 4 here, though it does happen. The Hoosiers are certainly the better team, no doubt. Plus, I'm not about to pick against baby brother Cody Zeller, even if he's wearing red and not blue. But IU just lost their point guard Verdell Jones III to a torn ACL, so it will be interesting to see how they adjust.


Vandy's gone up 10 at the break over Harvard, and LBS is hanging with NM. Otherwise:


Syracuse 72 - UNC-A 65 = The Orange have to fight to survive, yet manage to escape being the first 1 to fall to a 16-seed. How much longer they survive remains to be seen. Sometimes a fight like this can focus a team, and sometimes it just shows how vulnerable they are.

Maybe back later, maybe not. Regardless, enjoy.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Well, I'm just a country boy, and not a Vegas bookie. So talk to Charles Barkley, not to Kenny Smith. :r

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Back briefly with two non-hoops stories:


It seems like a few members of Southern Miss's band is in deep doo-doo with their dean. They started chanting "Where's your green card?" at a K-State player born in Puerto Rico. When you couple the ignorance of the chant itself with the ignorance of the fact that a child born in the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is a citizen of the United States and NEEDS no green card leads one to question the academic standards down them there parts. The school has already issued an apology, yet you can expect some discipline for the offenders.

Do you remember that Christian Laettner shot 'way back in the 1991 East Regional that beat Kentucky? Do you remember the great pass that Grant Hill made to his teammate which led to the bucket? Well, not only do the people at UPS remember, it seems the folks in Lexington do too. You may have seen the commercial UPS has been running which touts the guy who makes the delivery. The Big Blue Nation objects to said commercial, and has requested (Demanded?? That seems more like them.) that UPS stop running the commercial. Hey, 'Cats, why don't you concern yourself more with the present, and win the games this time, instead of obsessing over something 21 years in the past? Jeez, makes sense to me.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

We watched the 1st half of the Marquette game before going on home, and they were roughing the Cougars up pretty good. Got within 6, before Marquette slammed the door.

Good analysis on the Racers. Really good defenders that use this to create scoring, and can move the ball quickly. If Caanan either can't hit the 3, or is getting double/triple teamed, they have other guards more than capable of scoring. But... the last 3 weeks or so of play, they have let the boards go. Especially troubling is the lack of offensive rebounding, which could be turning into 2nd-chance points. This killed the Racers today in H1. For some reason, in the last few weeks, Daniels has decided to become a pacifist, and Aska is not paying attention. They'd better have received the wakeup call today, because Marquette will make them pay for this. On the other hand, in H2, Daniels and the others REALLY upped the defensive intensity. Really, Colorado State outshined MSI in many categories: shooting %, 3 point %, Freebies%, and rebounds. But they kept them from scoring, and won.

I think Prohme will be a good coach for the next level very soon, but he still needs some polish and experience. He will probably get an offer he can't refuse this off-season, but I hope he sticks around for at least 3 seasons. MSU has hosted more than a few up and comer coaches, and they've mostly had a tough go of it in the higher tier programs. Hope to see Cronin have more success at Cincy.

WKU started off well against UK, but it was no contest.

UNC-A almost did it!!! They had a chance. The refs did not help, for sure, but they blew it. I don't see 'Cuse going much farther.

Harvard falls to the up-and-down, southern Ivy League school, Vandy.

VCU has a 3 point lead w/ 12 secs left...wow!

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

I'll post more later, but at the moment I'm involved in seeing if Jerry's Wolfpack can hold on to knock out Larry's Aztecs. With 4 minutes left, the 'Pack up 8.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Sorry I've not been back, but I got wrapped up in that NCSU/SDSU game, and then the Fla. State/Bonnies war, then my Heels as it took them a while to get ahold of VT, and now Mizzou fighting for their lives against Norfolk State. We'll play some catch-up tomorrow, I promise.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Wolfpack survives; good on them!

1st BIG upset; Norfolk State hangs on to knock off Mizzou Woooohhhhh!!!!

Racers vs Marquette upper level tickets were $150 per when we got home last night. Over $300 per today; will be watching from the recliner tomorrow!!!

As always, a fun tourney so far. Hope you guys are enjoying it.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Norfolk State beating Mizzo is all everyone is talking about here...oh and VCU as well.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Down goes Duke! Down goes Duke!

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http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...gottfather.jpg



Found this on the interwebz. Looks like the faithful like Gottfried...:r

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

:garyBet that just screwed up EVERYBODY'S brackets...

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Wait until next year......


great games today......lovin it!

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Duke and the Zoo go down ... KU had better pay attention here....

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Like I said earlier; Dookie = Overrated (at least this year)
Eh, I had them losing to Xavier, so I'm not hurt too bad by it. The Mizzou loss though...:gary

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How's everyone's brackets looking so far? Mine isn't in the best shape, but still have a chance to make a nice run. Only missing two Sweet 16 teams (picked Davidson & Michigan) and a Final 4 team (Missouri).

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23 of 32 picks correct... :bh :bh :bh

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Hey, I stopped doing brackets years ago. Why do you think they call it Madness?

I'll be back a little later to talk about a common statement that has bothered me for years, and came home to roost big-time yesterday. I bet you can't wait for that. :r

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

If nothing else, it was an interesting day of hoops on Friday, as tons of people had their brackets totally torn apart. Not only did Mizzou and Dook go down, but the Ohio Bobcats knocked Michigan, co-champs of the Big Ten regular season, out of The Dance, while South Florida bulled the Temple Owls out, thus depriving many of one Cinderella pick. But the Tiger and Blue Devil losses in particular point out something that has bothered me for years, and that being the bold statement:


Guards win you championships.


Now, I am not about to denigrate the importance of quality guard play, and the statement is not a total fallacy. Yet I find it a misconception, or at least a flawed perception, for if you don't have some horses down low you are unlikely to survive. Mizzou came into the game touted for their unusual 3-guard offense, which was said to make them difficult to defend. True as that is, it only goes so far. If you've been reading this thread all along, you know how many times I have stated that the Tigers may be good, but they were not as great as the perception of their fans, and even of too many "experts". As for Duke, you can lament that they badly missed injured Kelly, but one thing they missed from this 6'10" player was his outside range, which was hard to defend and which opened up the lane for teammates by stretching the opponent's D. That's well and good, as far as it goes, but a big man is of more value in the paint! Me, I've never been overly impressed with the Plumlees, but last night they were the most effective option Dook had, and those guards did not do enough to get them the damn ball! Even the analysts said that they needed to play inside-out, not outside-in, and that was not only big man Charles Barkley but PG Kenny Smith too. Jet may have feigned backhanding the Round Mound when he spouted the old saw about dying by the three, but he also knows it is the truth.

As I said, good guard play is important. But the most important part of it is not the scoring, but the handling of the ball and the getting of it to the other guys in the right place at the right time. Yesterday Tyler Zeller got his double-double points and rebounds (17&15) in good part because Kendall Marshall did his job. Marshall's 11 points (on 5 for 7 shooting, not the 5 for 20 we saw from some other guards yesterday) was just icing on his 10 assists.

This idea of guards ruling the NCAAs may be sexy, but it does not hold up under tight scrutiny. Every year CBS opens up their pregame with the Michael Jordan shot which gave UNC the lead over Georgetown back in 1982. But nobody seems to talk about James Worthy getting 26 points in that game, nor the fact that the story going in was that Sam Perkins of Carolina could not handle the Hoyas' freshman man-child Patrick Ewing. And speaking of Ewing, it is true he won only one ring, but he did get to 3 championship games. Is that too old a reference for you? Well, let's go back to the last time the undisputed best team in the nation won it all, that being the Tar Heels in 2009. I was proud of the way I was able to handicap all those games, but particularly proud of the way I parsed perhaps the most interesting match-up of that run . . . UNC against upset-minded Oklahoma. Going into it, the experts were saying that Blake Griffin would eat Tyler Hansbrough for lunch, as he was much the superior athlete. I could not dispute the possibility, and agonized over the keys to that contest for a Heel victory to ensue. Finally, I asked myself two questions: "Could Blake have a monster game, yet Oklahoma still lose?" Yes, I decided. "Did Carolina need Tyler to have a monster game to win?" No, I also decided. From that point, I was not worried. If you recall, Blake did have a huge game, while Tyler got only (if I rememeber correctly) only 8 points. The Heels won that game from the outside, with scoring from guys like Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington, and Danny Green. On the surface, this seems to dispute the point I'm trying to make. Yet look at it more closely. Coming into that game, the Sooners knew they had no shot at all without Blake Griffin on the court, and they also knew that Hansbrough was perhaps the best man ever at drawing fouls. So they double-teamed him throughout the game in order to deny him the ball (and thus protect Blake), and triple-teamed him when he did get touches. The result of this was that it left those outside jumpshooters for UNC open looks at good shots, and they took full advantage. But nobody, NOBODY!, seemed to take note of that, despite the fact that, as I had predicted, it was the key to the game.

Bottom line, I am surprised that Duke and Missouri got beaten by Lehigh and Norfolk State respectively. However, I am NOT surprised that they did not make it far in the NCAA Tournament this year. For every Tyus Edney, Bryce Drew, or Stephan Curry hero in the history of the NCAAs, there are 10 or 12 chuckers or fumblers or ballhogs who shoot their teammates in the foot.

I'm off my soapbox now. Let's do some hoops.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

It looks like the Orange will survive at least one more round, as they are up double-digits on K-State with about 2 minutes left.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Final:


Syracuse 75 - Kansas State 59 = The Orange do advance, and with more ease than with their war with UNC-A. Maybe they got focused, maybe they got accustomed to playing without Fab Melo, and maybe they can lve up to their 1-seed . . . though I figure the winner of the Vandy/Wisc game will give them a lot to handle. As for K-State, they had a better season than was expected, which might keep Frank Martin from going postal . . . and may not. But this one wonders: With this loss, and with Texas and Missouri dropping out early, plus with Baylor struggling with South Dakota State. was the Big 12 again a one-league team, the Jayhawks and everybody else? OK, Iowa State did take care of U Conn, but I'm not sure how much that is worth. We'll know better today, when the Cyclones face Kentucky, and Baylor takes on Pac-12 champ Colorado . . . though maybe not so much in that 2nd one.


Other games today:


Ohio State vs. Gonzaga = There is no doubt which one has the most talent. But if Sully does not shake off his sophomore slump and bring it today, the Buckeyes' dependence upon Buford and Kraft to survive may get them into trouble with the 'Zags. I think they can overcome a poor offensive game by Sully, as long as he defends and rebounds, but without that this could get scary.

Murray State vs. Marquette = And this one is scary from the get-go, for both teams. Joe's Racers may be outclassed by the Marq-uee opponent, especially off the glass. But on the other hand, I doubt if Marquette knows a ton about Murray State, and may be looking past their 1-loss season as being merely a product of the lower-level competition they faced in the OVC. True as that may be, it does not mean the Racers cannot hoop, nor does it mean the Golden Eagles can't be beaten by a lower-seed . . . as Mizzou and Dook found out.

Vanderbilt vs. Wisconsin = To me this is one of the more interesting match-ups of the day. Both teams have some quality bigs, both want to control tempo, and both want a shot at what they think is a vulnerable Syracuse team. I expect a war here.

VCU vs. Indiana = Yeah, I know what VCU did last year, and yeah I know I was pumping their league all year as one of the better and underrated mid-majors in the nation. But despite the weaknesses the Hoosiers can show from the perimeter players at times, they play tough-nosed D, and the have the difficult-to-defend Cody Zeller in the paint. I see no miracle run for VCU this year.

Iowa State vs. Kentucky = The Cyclones have faced, and defeated at times, some quality teams all year, but they have not faced a team like the Wildcats. If UK plays like they did in their opener, this could get ugly. Iowa State's only chance is to control the pace, get inside either on drives or good post passing, and get those 'Cat bigs into some foul trouble. You can rattle a young team like UK, even if they are no longer really freshmen and sophomores, and rattled kids will make mistakes. Me, I would not bet on it, but it could happen.

Colorado vs. Baylor = And me, I don't like either one of these teams. I was surprised that the Buffaloes won their opener over UNLV, based upon the lousy play I saw from them in the Pac-12 championship game, which was unwatchable. As for the Bears, they have several good players, and nearly no team chemistry whatsoever. Why don't both of them go ahead and lose this one, so then we don't have to see them anymore? :D

New Mexico vs. Louisville = This is a tough one. The Lobos have had some very good wins, and have a good young coach to boot. The Cardinals have a "storied" (to be kind) coach of their own, and have had some terrible losses this year. They are like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates . . . you never know what you're gonna get. I'm leaning towards New Mexico here, but only because I'm not sure how much longer Louisville can continue to play well . . . their string may have run out.


If I get a chance to get back, I'll deal a bit with Sunday games, though all I really care about is if my Heels can get past Creighton, with or without John Henson. Until whenever then, enjoy.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Love your point about guard play vs viable post play/ers. This, in fact, was key to the Racer's loss today. The Racer guard corp was able to do some work, but overall, did not score enough to win the game, in spite of the EXCELLENT defensive work they did. Their 2 main big men are less than 6' 9", and were smaller than Marquette's big guys, and in the last 3 minutes, it was all the difference. Aska got inside looks, and almost never converted or rebounded his misses. Daniels was decently effective on offense, but got wore down by the battle and Marquette's big guys still had legs to make shots and rebounds. Daniels, again, was a beast on defense and quick opportunities, but at the end, was too tired to keep it up. I hope Murray has a big guy in wating (and we might. In fact, the one we do have can score and D, but needs more lbs next season).

So.. My wife and I are still here in the recliners, cleaning up our kleenexes. Murray was in the game till the last 2 minutes, but Marquettes size and strength gave them the legs to hang on 2 more minutes and preserve the lead. Great, tough game, with lots of lead changes throughout. My thanks to UK fans who bought up all the tickets, and then didn't go to this one, so the rest of us rooting for an in-state team could not go and show OUR support -(P. It was truly a fantastic season for the Racers, and I can't wait for next season. Be interesting to see if Caanan tries to leave early, or if Prohme gets an offer he can't refuse.

'Cuse wins, and shot that side of the bracket for me. Very surprised, to be honest.

UK is up about 20 on Iowa State, with less than 2m to go. Haven't watched it really. Just came in from smoking a Tat black PC on the back porch, and thinking about how great it would have been to have gotten to fly to Arizona to watch the Racers...

UL and New Mexico are in a close game, early in H1.

Vandy goes down to Wisconsin, which was no surprise.

Another mid major also bit the dust, with VCU falling to IU in a very close, hard fought game. Really enjoy watching Shaka's teams. THE OSU beats the 'Zags as well.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

My 2 favorite teams are in the Sweet 16 (Cincinnati and Ohio State) and they are playing each other on Thursday.

I am definitely rooting for the Cincinnati Bearcats! :banger

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Joe, I feel your pain. Remember, as a Tar Heel, I've seen more than my share of hearbreaking losses in the NCAAs myself. Just do what I do and congratulate yourself and your team for having an outstanding season, and move on.

My point about guards may or may not be all that valid, but it may have brought me some bad karma. Kendall Marshall broke a bone in his wrist yeaterday against Creighton. He had a screw put into it today, and is "unlikely" for the game Friday. True, Carolina has enough other talent to have reasonable faith that they should . . . SHOULD! . . . be able to handle the Ohio Bobcats. Hell, they probably have enough to give the Charlotte Bobcats a decent game. Still, it is a hit for their possible future down the line, even if he comes back at, what we'd assume, is less than 100%.

And Dan, as for your Cincy/OSU match-up, you sure can pick 'em. Both of those teams can play very well, and both can come out and absolutely stink up the joint. :D Should be interesting.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Kudos on the Ohio teams making the Sweet 16!!!!! Wish there were 2 KY teams there with ya. The Racers are looking forward already to the 2012/13 season, and getting past the Sweet 16; love that attitude!!!

Very interested to see Ohio and Cincy match up. Looks like Cincy is still drawing ire as a "thug" team from the internet chatter. I'm glad to see Cronin have success in the bigger program, after leaving the Racers, and appreciate his time here. Also see another Racer coaching alum having success, as Gottfried's team gets a Sweet 16 spot.

Poet, I'm definitely no Tarheel fan, but I hate to see any kid go down, especially at this time. Kids play hard all year long, and making it here, deserve to get to enjoy playing in the Dance. I hope he can somehow get in to play. If the Tarheels make it to play UK, I want to see the very best of your team going after the very best of the team I root for, win or lose. No jinx there, it's just an unfortunate reality of good, all-out play sometimes.

One thing about this tourney I heard brought up on Evan and Phillips this morning: the last game ended well after midnight Eastern Time. That is WAY too late to have these games going, both for the players AND me!!!

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

So, lemme get this straight . . . the internet is a-chatter with Cincy being a thug, as they prepare to go up against Big Ten opponent Ohio State? Have those guys ever watched a basketball game? :confused: :D

It's beginning to look like this year's UNC team has become as snake-bit as their 1977 one. That year they lost to injuries Tommy LaGarde, Walter Davis, and Phil Ford . . . who did manage to play in the tournament, but was not nearly as effective. This year's team lost guard Leslie McDonald before the season, Dexter Strickland in January, lost John Henson for a few games, and now will have, at best, a one-handed point guard in Kendall Marshall. On the bright side, the 1977 team went on to the championship game before losing to Marquette. Also, this year's final is in New Orleans, where Dean Smith won both his banners. And, perhaps best news of all, when Dean lost that '77 final to Al McGuire, Al celebrated by announcing his retirement. Perhaps if we can somehow make it to the championship and lose to Kentucky, John Calipari will do us all the same favor. :r

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All I'm gonna say is Carolina better win on Friday. I want another crack at em, this time with no ACC refs to be ACC refs.

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Well, while you're looking past Kansas, I'll concern myself with getting past Ohio. ;)

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Oh, Bear, BTW . . . though I've said I don't care about Vegas oddsmakers, I did a check anyway. My Heels are still a 10 1/2-point favorite over the Ohio Bobcats, even without Marshall projected to play. On the other side of the bracket, your 'Pack is an 8-point 'dog against the Jayhawks.

That may mean jack, and I reaffirm I do not pay attention to it at all. Yet I also reaffirm you need to play them one at a time. :D

Re: College Hoops Thread 2011-2012
 

Well we managed to beat a team I had in the championship game in my bracket, so I'm feelin good about the matchup. Just hope the team doesn't cool off before the game, we were on fire in the Georgetown game.