Re: The Wine Thread
 

Moses,

I used to drink with Mike Lawton and his group back in 2001 when I worked in Boston on a contract, do you know them?

And is that cigar bar on Newbury still open? Spent a few hours there on 9/11 when the whole city was in panic mode, hope they are still open.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I do not know Mike Lawton. What is his group?

Yes, Cigar Masters is still in business and they moved the next street down on Boylston St. The smoking bans in Boston has been a salvation to their business; they are busy 7 nights a week.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Good for Cigar Masters, the place was really good on my visits there (years ago). Will make sure to visit on my next trip to Boston, they provided the calmest few hours on 9/11 and I really appreciate that.

Mike Lawton's group is a bunch of locals, they used to participate on Wine Lovers Discussion forum, although I haven't seen them there lately. Met one of the guys last year at a wine event here in SF, looks like they are still drinking together. Mostly an Old World palate group, should be right up your alley :-)) (I am a New World palate, although drink and taste everything to keep up with the wine world and also run probably the best wine group in SF area for the past 10 years).

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The only "wine groups" I participate in is port drinking.

Yup, I am an old world wine drinker, and a necro wine drinker at that. I side with the Brit's about when a wine is mature, lol...

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I can tell by the pictures you post. Good for you, drink what your palate wants.

Mike's group used to taste either at his house (outside of Boston proper), or at that Chinese place near turnpike entry in downtown, not sure I remember the place, King Fung? Or something like that, its a dive, but with decent food. And they did not charge us corkage.

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Unfortnately, I can't always drink what my palate wants, or it would be DRC all the time! Stuck with masses, but one can dream.

Been lucky to try a few good wines in my day though.

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I've yet to try any DRC, can't afford it. Hopefully, when I do get the chance it will the treat everyone claims it to be (although I am skeptical, been spoiled by some great CA Pinot).

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I tried a '62 La Tache once at my friend's holiday party. Wow! Still had real extract and power. Deep, and an amazing finish. I had like 3 years ago.

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I'll agree with you on that one.

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QPR=??

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Quality (to) Price Ratio. :ze

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Thanks Seth. So a "QPR label" would be considered a value, budget, or everyman's wine I assume.

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Yes, with the implied addition that what you are paying for gets you better quality than most bottles of similar price. The quality is better than expected just based on price.

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Just a good value for the money... Does not assume an "everyman's wine", as everyone has a different pocketbook.

A million dollar painting for 250K is an excellent QPR, but above most our means ...

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Understood.

And understood.

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Not a huge champagne guy...but had a bottle of Bernard Bremont Grand Cru a couple of nights ago and I must admit it was very tasty. Cost me like $40 and tasted much better to me than higher priced stuff I've had.

Any of you guys have any input on that one?

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Had a reference to this wine in the cheap wine thread. Check out the alcohol level, it looks like 15.4%, this is almost like a port!
http://130.94.224.229/share/pinot_noir.jpg
You have to be on a list to buy it.

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Not going to age like port. Generally, the high alcohol wines are to chase the high initial scores; with little thought to what they will taste like in 10-20 years. There's not enough acid for the long haul.

High alcohol wines like this are not as food friendly either.

Certainly tragedy to have pinot that high in alcohol; should be against the law!

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I find that high alcohol only means the grapes had a lot of sugar to begin with. This varies by region and picking time. I have heard that in France it is acceptable to add sugar to up the alc. and in hot regions they remove alc. to get a more complete fermentation. For some reason I don't have any wines older than 15 years.:al

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I am not sure I would agree some points above. There are many vineyards around, both here and in Europe, where sugars go up and acids do not come down as the fruit ripens on the vine. One needs to wait until acidity comes down to workable levels and this forces winemakers' hands in some cases. Key is still balance and numbers don't mean much when the overall balance works. Or doesn't.

Burgundy has traditionally added sugar to bump up the alcohol, not only Burgundy actually. Yet no Burg-head ever wants to discuss this or admit to it.

What percentage of dry wines is capable of as good an aging as Port? And last I checked, not all Ports have same aging ability.

Best Bordeaux houses use very ripe fruit, same ripeness levels as here, but they also use RO machines to get the alcohol out prior to bottling. They also figured out that to get the mouth feel and flavor they want, that's the game they must play. LLC (Leoville Las Cases) is prime example of that, yet I have not heard one bad review so far.

KB Pinots are what they are, well made wines made for (rather) earlier consumption. They are still too young as a winery to figure out how they age, although owners will also tell you to drink them now if that's how you like them. I've tasted through barrels a good number of times, a few time each vintage, the fruit profile is seriously good, IMO. And the wines are getting better and better with each new vintage, they are dialing in oak programs and winemaking techniques. Alcohol numbers? I do not pay attention unless alcohol is the first thing that hits me when I taste a wine and in KB I do not get that.

Anyone had August West Pinots? Rivers Marie? AP Vin? Curious to hear your notes on those.

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I read an article about "what the winemakers don't want you to to know" a while back. I decided I didn't really want to know it either.
The end product speaks for itself. I'll leave it to he pros to decide the best way to get there.

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A couple weeks ago, I took out a client & he introduced me to the world of Orin Swift wines.

http://www.orinswift.com/

He suggested we order the 2005 Papillon. It's a Bordeaux-style blend, very full & jammy with a pretty nifty and unusual label. Also look for the butterfly ("papillon" means butterfly in French) at the bottom of the bottle in the dimple at the bottom of a wine bottle that is called the 'punt'.

The wine was absolutely delicious.

http://www.orinswift.com/included/im...lon500x367.jpg

They also make "The Prisoner", also a blend, which I've since had and enjoyed but Papillon is definitely the better of the two, and more costly.

https://b-21.com/images/orin-swift-prisoner.gif

Orin Swift wines are pretty hard to find but I picked up a few bottles at Whole Foods in Redondo Beach. $50/each if you buy 6 total bottles for the '06 Papillon (the '05 we had in the restaurant is sold out) & $30 for The Prisoner. Considerably more than I normally spend on wine but definitely worth the occasional splurge.

And I've heard if you find these wines, get 'em while you can. They run in limited supplies and once they're out of any given vintage, they're out.

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Orin Swift is in every decent wine store you care to name. How many pallets do you need?

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It's a good thing for my liver that I can't afford pallets of wine.:al
Or crates of cigars.:ss
Or trophy women. :dr
Or... dang.:(

Life is still good!

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I have been trying to find a wine I had in Germany made by the Deppisch family for a few years now. I stayed at the Hotel Anker which they also own and the wine they served in their restaurant was great.

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I am guessing a Riesling? Try calling Dee Vine in San Francisco, if they are unable to find the wine for you, then I am guessing it is not imported into USA. They are THE shop for German Riesling.

http://www.dvw.com/

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Call the hotel and ask them for the name and if they have a US distributor.

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I sent them an email a few years ago and they were not selling it to the US. What I need to do is take another trip to Germany. :D

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If you are that hot on this wine, just buy a case and have it shipped. I would suggest doing this after October. There's some big internet wine stores based out of Germany.

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Ryan,

As Moses already pointed out there is another option. You need to call Adventures in Wine, they are based here in Bay Area and specialize in importing private purchases. All you have to do is order direct from the German producer, Adventures in Wine will then handle importing paperwork for customs and such. Have no idea if it is worth the effort, money wise, but something you can take a look at.

Try buying a few different bottles of JJ Prum or Dr. Loosen, I am almost sure you may find them at least as good as what you have tasted in Germany and probably better. They are the two producers you can bet money on, year in and year out, and the wines are outstanding in every respect, they age incredibly well to boot.

Do you recall flavor profile of the wine you liked? How much sugar was in it? Or rather, how mcuh did your palate detect?

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Those two are among the best producers. More important is to know what style of Riesling you like; there's a big difference in spectrum.

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No kiddin? Who knew! I need a lot...

I just can't afford any more!

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Ok, The wife found a wine that she absolutely loves...CakeBread cabernet sauvignon...only problem is it is $90 a bottle...I bought her a bottle of the Cakebread Pinot Nior for $75 for mothers day but holy hell! Is there another manufacture that is comparable and a little more reasonable? :rolleyes:

Re: The Wine Thread
 

CakeBread is good stuff. :dr It's the price I don't like. :) Their wine club has bottles at a lower price point, but they get you with the annual cost.

http://www.cakebread.com/clubs/


I'm a fan of Chimney Rock....I can usually find the cab for around $40/bottle.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

I have never tried CakeBread Wine, so I cannot make a comparison, however the name immediately brought to attention another wine that makes a wonderful Cab &, Shiraz. I have not tried their Pinot Noir or any of their white wines yet, but I expect that they will be very good as well. I am referring to "LayerCake". They have a wonderful 2007 Cab that you should let you wife try. It sells in the area of $25 a bottle!

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Thanks for the tips.

The one thing I remember the most about it was how smooth it was to drink.

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Thanks for the input! :tu

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Ryan,

I am almost sure that if you try one of the two labels, or both, You WILL fall in love. As Moses has pointed out, German Rieslings are made with some sugar to a lot of sugar, although with age all that sugar integrates. Also try Leitz, they are more affordable. But between JJ Prum ( don't confuse with his relative MA Prum) and Dr. Loosen you can't find a bad wine even if you try.
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E-Man,

At $75 for Pinot you have a TON of choices and I can guarantee you will enjoy them much more than that Cakebread. Until Sideways hit the screens, Napa guys looked down at Pinot and didn't consider it wine and I am being serious. They all jumped on the wagon since the movie came out and all I can tell you is that making Pinot and Cab are two completely different processes in all respects. I would know. And it takes a while to learn how to make great Pinot, not just the past 3-4 years when it became "fashionable".

Try Pinots by Loring, Siduri, August West, AP Vin, just off the top of my head, there are many more. All in the $40-50 range and way better than Cakebread. If you feel like spending more, Pisoni is the one to try, in the $60s, but worth every penny IMO.

For a better priced and actually better Cab, IMO, try finding a bottle of Paradigm, should be under $50. Little known, still, but every bit as good as most of the big boys. I think you can order online, although give them a call and see if they are distributed in your state. Another one to try is Meander, a really good wine.

There are just a few high priced Cabs I buy these days, Maybach is one and Pride is another. The rest charge for the "name recognition" for the most part.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Thanks so much for the input! I will definately give those a try and report back! :tu

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Too bad cabs had fallen out of popularity. Some of the best wines I have ever tasted have been cabs or cab blends. We have a local family winery called Burrell School that has some old cab sauv vineyards and they are consistent with their cabs. I like getting to know the grapes, the harvest, the winemakers and the varietals of the local wineries. If only I kept notes.

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When did this happen? That is news to me.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Right before the Merlot craze (early 80s?), before the Pitite Syrah craze, before the Pinot craze. When will we get back to Zinfandel? What are we on right now? (I'm talking about mass popularity). I don't pay much attention anymore. :D
Anyone remember the "Pink Zinfandel" craze?:r
Maybe it's time for Sherry to come back around.
Honestly, the PN wave passed right under me and I barely noticed. I never saw "Sideways". I don't quite understand the reference, except that Pinot Noir must have been a major part of the plot. David Bruce winery is just up the road from me so I have been drinking lots of good Pinot for a long time.

Cheers *clink*!

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Well I'll be on the front of the line leading the Zinfandel popularity charge. I've been enjoying those for a couple of years now. I didn't know there was a craze in the past. And if I'm not drinking a Zin, I usually gravitate towards a cabernet. I've never gotten into Pinots. I've found them too light bodied, though to be fair I haven't had a lot of them because the ones I have had have not impressed me.

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Pinot Noir is from Burgundy, period! Lot's of places try and some come close, but Burgundy is Burgundy!

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Burgundy is from Burgundy. Pinot Noir is a plant that grows where it will.

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Yes, pinot noir may grow anywhere, even indoors, but that does not mean it's worth anything. Burgundy is the only place that can make Pinot worth drinking and usually at a king's ransom at that.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Good stuff Mike! :tu

I think we're in Syrah-land right now, or at least I am. I've really enjoyed being in Cab-land, Zin-land & Pinot-land, but I really haven't spent a lot of time in Syrah-land or Petite-Syrah-land and I think I should.

I just bought a bottle of Syrah called 'Sequel' and it was pretty good. Still, I really prefer full, jammy, long finish, smooth reds and I think Syrah & PS are considerably lighter.

As for Zin's, which I love, a decent priced & good Zin is Ridge Vineyard's Lytton Springs. You can usually find it anywhere and on most restaurant's wine lists and even at restaurants, I haven't seen it higher than $60 which ain't bad for a good, nice wine while out to dinner.

Re: The Wine Thread
 

Oh, oh, and you should really watch Sideways. It wasn't GREAT but it was a nice little movie in our beautiful & wonderful Santa Barbara Wine Country.

And we just watched BOTTLESHOCK not too long ago.

GREAT, GREAT, GREAT movie about how California wines (which truly are amazing, I disagree with you completely there, Moses; we produce some incredible Pinot's) got on the world map back in the mid-'70's and beat out French wines in their wine competition.

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Great flicks Dave! I love to enjoy them while drinking vino. :tu

My last trip to SB was great. Hit a lot of great wineries and had dinner at the Ballard Inn among other places. I enjoyed the Highliner at Hitching Post, but was not impressed with the food. We even unintentionally had lunch and wine at one of the other places featured in the Sideways (the place where they went on the double date --- Los Olivos Cafe?), but the place was rearranged for the movie. Great food and enjoyed a nice pinot. Gotta like SB wine country. :)

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I'll have to do a SB trip sometime. Did Paso Robles and Napa last year with a couple of little trips to other places too.