Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1390599)

To me the window for this team is next year and next year only, unless something changes. Votto is gone, Phillips might be, Rollen isn't getting any younger, Bruce is at a crossroads in his young career (he will either digress or become a consistent all-the-time player), Janish has to either decide he wants to be a back up or trade his ass, Cozart has to develop into the SS they so desperately need, they have to convince BP to stay in the leadoff and need some bullpen help which is soon to be sans closer (which could be a good thing). Jocketty has to make a move to improve this team in the off-season, a true leadoff would go a long way, closer is a must, still no answer in LF and getting some consistent hitters to surround Votto would make them a much better team. :2

Originally Posted by elderboy02 (Post 1390597)

Reds win! Reds win! :banger :tu :banger :tu :)

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390588)

Being someone not from the area, I don't hear the hype as much as y'all do. I try not to believe it until it's proven anyways (like Cam Newton down here in NC).


But like it or not, the optimistic things I posted are actually not over-hyped (with the exception of Cozart). Is that gonna get us to the playoffs or to the WS? Hell no. Is it enough for us to break .500 next year? I think so.


Bruce is a future MVP - Nope. But his numbers have improved like I said

Cordero to get 50+ saves - Don't care. He's off the books next year. Thank God.

Stubbs the future leadoff - Never said it. Don't want it. He is a more than acceptable MLB hitter at the 6-8 spot though. If they would let him bunt, then I could see him as a two hole hitter, but until then, he's down to the bottom of the order

Janish - I never expected much of Janish, but I did think that he would hit at least in the .250-260 range. I'll admit I was wrong on this one.

Gomes - Didn't want him back. I knew what he was gonna do.

Rolen- You didn't bring him up, but I will...He made the All-Star team. Big whoop. Wow. I'm not impressed. I don't buy into his hype. He's played with a fugged up shoulder all year and I've been calling for him to retire since the end of last year. Yes he helped us make the playoffs last year, but if you look at his numbers, they sucked after the 2010 All-Star break. He needs to retire, and if we bring him back next year, then it's gonna hurt us in the long run.

Hernandez- You didn't bring him up either, but while I'm on the subject of calling people out...
Hernandez is a good player and a good guy, but is way overrated b/c of the walkoff HR in game 1 this year. Hannigan is the better defensive catcher by a long shot. Look at his ERA per pitcher compared to Ramon. Ramon does not need to be offered arbitration next year. That would be a joke. Hanigan can provide both backup and mentorship to Meseraco next year and they will be fine. Just like this year: Meseraco with the bat, Hanigan with the defense/better game calling skills.



I could go on if anyone likes, but I think that was enough for now. I'm optimistic about next year for sure, but I'm not a homer. I realize our downfalls, but our strengths as of this point outweigh our weaknesses. We won't know until Jocketty makes some moves or not during the offseason, but I've got hope for another wininng season next year, with or without Dusty's help.


EDIT: And if we're paying Chapman $30 million to be anything but a starter, then it's time to bail on him. Sign the kid up for winter ball, build up his endurance, and put him in the rotation. This reliever crap is a waste of both money and talent.

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390611)

I wasn't knocking you, Adam, with my last post. I think we agree on things more times than not. I just think you take some of my positive posts the wrong way some times.;)


To be honest, I'm a bit of a realist, so when I see us being an above .500 team, then I'm happy. Other fans aren't happy unless their team wins the championship or at least makes the playoffs. When we don't make the playoffs, it hurts a bit, but if we play above .500, then I'm good at this point.

2012 above .500 and if we play our contracts right (maybe Votto with a one year deal and re-sign BP) then it's possible we make a championship run in 2013, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1390620)

Greatest comeback since the '69 Mets?

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1390629)

We concur on the sports discussion most of the time. Seems to be you and I are the only ones who discuss the actual issues/team/prospects/future. I am glad you are a realist, it makes discussing sports much easier. :tu

The reality is, this is the same team as last year, in which the division was absolutely garbage and they found a way to sneak out wins against bad teams. This year they played a tougher schedule (albeit not much) and will likely end up where they should have last season. Overachieving got them to the playoffs and the Phillies exposed them to be the team they should have been all year. ;s

.500 is a lofty goal now considering those in the area (and even some nationally) had them as the sexy favorite to win the division again, despite not making an upgrade in the off season like the Brewer did and still didn't have a better team than the Cardinals. The Cards lost their ace before the season and as of yet, they still can't pass them. :rolleyes:

Until they can put a team on the field that is superior to the Cards and Brewers, the luck factor can only win them so many games. Heck there have been 10+ games they were lucky to win this season that they should have lost. :sh

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1390629)

We concur on the sports discussion most of the time. Seems to be you and I are the only ones who discuss the actual issues/team/prospects/future. I am glad you are a realist, it makes discussing sports much easier. :tu

The reality is, this is the same team as last year, in which the division was absolutely garbage and they found a way to sneak out wins against bad teams. This year they played a tougher schedule (albeit not much) and will likely end up where they should have last season. Overachieving got them to the playoffs and the Phillies exposed them to be the team they should have been all year. ;s

.500 is a lofty goal now considering those in the area (and even some nationally) had them as the sexy favorite to win the division again, despite not making an upgrade in the off season like the Brewer did and still didn't have a better team than the Cardinals. The Cards lost their ace before the season and as of yet, they still can't pass them. :rolleyes:

Until they can put a team on the field that is superior to the Cards and Brewers, the luck factor can only win them so many games. Heck there have been 10+ games they were lucky to win this season that they should have lost. :sh

Originally Posted by waffle (Post 1390668)

I think its frustrating that the majority of the fans in Cincinnati walk around with Rose (only pun slightly intended) colored glasses on. Is the team exactly where they should expect to be? YES! They weren't the team they were hyped up to be all pre-season, they were the team they were in the pre-season, they had some really strong spots (Votto, BP, etc) but they have these "up and comers" that don't pan out that should be the "second coming" according to listen to the propoganda spewed by the commentators and the sports talk shows in the area... when someone calls them out, the whole city gets defensive... i.e. Cowherd last year... saying that the Reds had no business in the playoffs, the city went crazy... and then they get thumped because they were in no way the better team, they just happened to get lucky and were in a TERRIBLE division (hey icehogs' Cubs, whats up?).

I just wish the city would realize we have one team performing at .500 level and another that probably won't win a game this season and stop thinking we have such strong teams.

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1390689)

Cubs are pitiful, Steve. With the exception of Starling Castro and Darwin Barney, they have little to be excited about at this point. Over the hill, over-paid "sluggers", mentally unstable pitchers and a minor league manager. If I wasn't a Tigers fan I would be watching bowling right now.

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390681)

I'll agree in part. We were pretty much the exact same team for the first half of this year. Since the AS break, we've been a relatively young team. The first half can be blamed on Jocketty for not making moves vs. Cards and Brewers making moves. The moves worked out for the Brew Crew, as they've turned into the Phillies of the Central, but the moves haven't worked out for STL at all, except for Berkman. If Milwaukee kept their same team as last year, then we would have made another run at it, but unfortunately, they improved, where Walt did nothing but bring in some losers/has beens with Renteria and Lewis. I can't knock him for the extensions, bc they've all worked out somewhat (even Arroyo b/c he's provided rest for the bullpen).

But the second half has been Heisey, Frazier, Sappelt, and Alonso. These guys haven't been much, but we've won games with them and have worked back to above .500. Really, other than Cozart and Alonso, the prospects haven't shown much (with Alonso still to be determined), but we've made do with them and it has been a completely different dynamic the second half. We can actually win two games in a row at this point.:r

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390698)

Byrd isn't that bad is he? And Baker (I think that's the utility guy's name doesn't seem that bad). I wouldn't mind having Aramis Ramirez at third base for the Reds next year.;)

Originally Posted by waffle (Post 1390703)

Yup yup.. which is somewhat shocking considering they just about got swept by both the Stros and the Cubbies...

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1390705)

Yeah, I am pretty down on the team, but Byrd is a good ballplayer....just hasn't been the same since he got his face smashed in with a pitch though, hopefully he comes back stronger next year if he is back. Ramirez looked like he was on the decline, but he continues to suprise once the weather warms up. I'm not sold on Baker yet, though.

Too bad the Tigers are in such a crappy division too...or maybe a good thing. I think they will have trouble in the playoffs...unless Verlander can pitch 11 games in a row. :r

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390692)

The hatred is just for outsiders, b/c if you listen to the radio, Marty has talked pure trash about this team for a while now. That's why I prefer to listen to the radio over the tv broadcast. Marty calls it like it is vs. douchebags like Chris Welsch who seems to know every player on a first name basis.


At times when I'm listening to Marty, I think I'm watching/listening to Bob Uecker in Major League.:r

Originally Posted by icehogs

Cubs are pitiful, Steve. With the exception of Starling Castro and Darwin Barney, they have little to be excited about at this point. Over the hill, over-paid "sluggers", mentally unstable pitchers and a minor league manager. If I wasn't a Tigers fan I would be watching bowling right now.

Originally Posted by waffle (Post 1390711)

Lol I WISH Marty would get hammered like in Major League!!! And you're exactly right, I spend too much time watching it rather than listening... I did appreciate that the Cowboy flat out called out the team a few weeks ago.



You should check out bocce... im pretty sure its on the OCHO. ;)

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390710)

I'd like to see Baker get to start everyday to see what he could do.
Ramirez just ended a 16 game hitting streak. He's a power guy and has a good average. I'd take him anyday.
Byrd will make a comeback. Kinda like Bagwell getting hit on the hand twice. Took a bit, but he came back. Same for NASCAR racers and the "big one". They get in the big wreck and they're shakey for a while before they get their confidence back. It'll happen.

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1390729)

Hope. :)

Sounds like Aramis wants to stay in Chicago (I dunno why, LOL). Now they need to fix their middle relief.

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390732)

Even if he didn't want to stay, they wouldn't move him to another team in the NL Central. It's just wishful thinking on my part.:) Maybe next year's GM for the Cubs will do them some good.

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390730)

This is the best Reds debate/discussion we've had on here in two years. I wish this would happen more often in here.

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1390734)

Can't do much worse then the last few years, Andy. ;)

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390716)

I missed it. What did Brantley say?

I will admit that I'm a Brantley homer. This guy is awesome and should be a pro wrestling commentator in the offseason.

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1390739)

There is always discussion between the two of us Andy. The problem is most others who post in this thread post simply when the Reds win. Nice to see Steve and Tom engaging in a little baseball talk though. :tu

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1390744)

I would definitely like to see the Cubs return to relevance. Having some more parity in the division would be nice too. Having 3 of the worst 5 teams in the NL and the worst team in the MLB doesn't make it very exciting. With the exception of the Brewers right now, there isn't much worth watching in the NL Central. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by waffle (Post 1390762)

Something along the lines of well, this is what its like to watch a professional team playing baseball in Cincinnati (talking about whomever they were playing), the problem is if they call the team out too bad, they get :sl because at the end of the day, they still are employed by the Reds. Its fun to have a conversation about something you're passionate about... it also helps to be able to see the whole picture when you look at teams dynamic... poor Tom has been dealing with this since Sammy took the team to the playoffs!

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390770)

It's also nice to see Dan's optimism in here too. Don't straight up disregard it. We suck, but feelgoodism is nice too from time to time. Hugh pops in from time to time with some happiness (and sometimes not) too. The two of us are pretty hard on the team, so I always welcome some "homerism" from time to time.:)

That's why we need to get rid of a team. We're the only six team division in baseball. Why don't the Asstros move to the West to even things out. Give every division five teams? Too many teams make us look bad b/c when you go up against the ASStros three to four times a year, it inflates your record.

When Brantley first started calling games he was boring and monotonous, but he's gotten MUCH better and has provided a wealth of knowledge, especially when it comes to pitching. Good to see he's learned a thing or two from Marty on how to be honest about the home team.

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1390770)

It's also nice to see Dan's optimism in here too. Don't straight up disregard it. We suck, but feelgoodism is nice too from time to time. Hugh pops in from time to time with some happiness (and sometimes not) too. The two of us are pretty hard on the team, so I always welcome some "homerism" from time to time.:)

That's why we need to get rid of a team. We're the only six team division in baseball. Why don't the Asstros move to the West to even things out. Give every division five teams? Too many teams make us look bad b/c when you go up against the ASStros three to four times a year, it inflates your record.

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1390786)

I thought you said sports discussion. ;) :r

The division is ridiculous, they should shuffle the NL and give the Central some better teams. :D Problem being that the Reds will fall even further. I don't know who you cut out to put into the AL. Being in the weakest division certainly improves the Reds chances every season, but last year was the first time they have taken advantage of it in the last 20 years. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1390882)

I believe in being passionate about your teams....for me, that means the Blackhawks (NHL) over most, but I also have love for my MLB, NFL and college FB teams. But being a passionate fan doesn't mean being blind....if you can't be objective about your team, your opinions will likely be irrelevant in a frank discussion about same. Thanks for indulging me here even though the Reds aren't my team. :tu

Originally Posted by elderboy02 (Post 1391132)

I too love Jeff Brantley. He is absolutely hillarious with his stories, but is also very smart about baseball. Andy, I agree that he has tremendous baseball knowledge. I think he would be a great pitching coach.

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1390882)

I believe in being passionate about your teams....for me, that means the Blackhawks (NHL) over most, but I also have love for my MLB, NFL and college FB teams. But being a passionate fan doesn't mean being blind....if you can't be objective about your team, your opinions will likely be irrelevant in a frank discussion about same. Thanks for indulging me here even though the Reds aren't my team. :tu

Originally Posted by waffle (Post 1391151)

Jeff Brantley does have a vast baseball knowledge, but with zero coaching skills built (i.e. he's never coached, and doesn't seem to have the drive to) he would be a HORRENDOUS coach. "Yer not doing it right, watch its like this"... rather than this is what you're doing wrong and lets try this to correct it. You have to know how to correct issues before you can be a good coach and if Brantley were a coach, he'd have to start in a lower area than the Bigs. The only reason McGwire does well as a coach is because towards the end of his career, he stood at the cages as the young guys took bp and worked with them... he took steps to be a batting coach while he was still a player.

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1391420)

That's the way he says it in the booth. I'm sure he knows that coaching has to have a different approach.
But like you said, he has no interest in coaching. Still, I'd love it though.

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1391420)

That's the way he says it in the booth. I'm sure he knows that coaching has to have a different approach.
But like you said, he has no interest in coaching. Still, I'd love it though.

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1391497)

Good announcers don't always translate into sports minds or coaches or vice-versa. See: Matt Millen, announcer hired as a GM. Barry Melrose's last stint in the NHL, coach turned announcer, turned coach. Quinn Buckner a terrible failure in the NBA after being hired out of the booth. :2

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1391561)

Could you get the word out to all the clowns in Cincy who want to see Joe Morgan become the next manager?:r

Originally Posted by waffle (Post 1391569)

You ever heard of FireJoeMorgan.com? or FJM... they used to mercilessly destroy his articles and stories... they were amazing!

And no, I DON'T want Joe Morgan as my next manager... how about we get someone that has proven they actually know what the F*$# they're doing rather than some dude you want to have nostalgic buttsex with....

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1391561)

Could you get the word out to all the clowns in Cincy who want to see Joe Morgan become the next manager?:r

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1391960)

Phillies caught stealing signs. Bastrads! Good job by Hanigan to catch it, but he should've told Bailey to put the ball in someone's ear.

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1391991)

I would hardly call that stealing signals. He took a step inside and coincidentally (maybe not) that is where Hannigan set up. Hannigan set up inside the next pitch and he didn't take the step. :confused:

It might be a little bush league, but it happens at every level of baseball. Hell, little leaguers point to where the catcher sets up. In the end knowing where the pitcher is set up helps you about as much as a corked bat, you still have to hit the ball. :2

Originally Posted by elderboy02 (Post 1392008)

Joe Morgan will never manage the Reds. Why would he trade in what he has now to live in hotels and be on the road all the time. I think he is staying put :tu

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1392271)

A one hour sports radio show on Sports USA Radio Network? Does anyone even know who carries the show? Yeah, I wouldn't trade that in either. Frankly, he is a bad sports announcer/analyst/broadcater/journalist, any job he can hold is worth hanging on to I suppose. :confused:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79 (Post 1392271)

A one hour sports radio show on Sports USA Radio Network? Does anyone even know who carries the show? Yeah, I wouldn't trade that in either. Frankly, he is a bad sports announcer/analyst/broadcater/journalist, any job he can hold is worth hanging on to I suppose. :confused:

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1392408)

Bad broadcaster? I don't think that's really fair, Adam. I thought he always did an excellent job of explaining how great Joe Morgan was. ;)