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-   -   Sometimes you call a spade a spade (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19088)

G G 07-30-2009 04:01 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottw (Post 487258)
Maybe that mentality will help prevent this **** from happening again.

Sorry if it offends any one but I have to agree. Getting these situations out in the open may keep me or you from getting stuck for some money.

Resipsa 07-30-2009 04:10 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ggainey (Post 487291)
Sorry if it offends any one but I have to agree. Getting these situations out in the open may keep me or you from getting stuck for some money.

Sorry but I disagree. Why don't we all just start searching through the trader ratings and start posts and threads about every single person we suspect of being a bad trader, get the rope and string them up? To hell with guilt or innocence, they've been accused that's all we need right?

There's a process for people who feel aggrieved, and don't think it's in the spirit of this board what going on in this thread right now

Scottw 07-30-2009 04:18 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Resipsa (Post 487299)
Sorry but I disagree. Why don't we all just start searching through the trader ratings and start posts and threads about every single person we suspect of being a bad trader, get the rope and string them up? To hell with guilt or innocence, they've been accused that's all we need right?

There's a process for people who feel aggrieved, and don't think it's in the spirit of this board what going on in this thread right now

I am not trying to say that here. I think that would be too aggressive but in the case of Dan let's say. If 3 -4 months goes by and you see that 4-5-6 people are giving negative feedback, maybe put up a bulletin or something so people can see if this is affecting them too. Some people forget what they are involved in. I remembered 3 months later that I had purchased from Dan so I began PM'ing him and finally, I got what I ordered but it was damaged. I dont think we need to expose every negative trader rating but if it is blatantly obvious that something is up, I think we owe it to one another to let each other know. If there is a defense (in this case, the accused is silent), it will hopefully be heard. If I know that you are getting screwed on something and I know this because it once happened to me, what kind of person am I if I don't let you know what is or what maybe is up?

bigloo 07-30-2009 04:21 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
This is where the thread derails. I think everyone can agree on the following:

1) Buyer Beware.
2) Contact mods immediately at first signs of problems.
3) If needed, leave negative feedback (just like ebay, negative feedback is so rare here that even one raises my alert level to maximum).
4) Stay classy (no need to lynch anyone in public.. while not likely in these cases, there have been cases were a BOTL disappears with money due to emergency hospitalization/etc).
5) If/when mods have banned the person, feel free to post your feelings like Silverfox did here. Dan was found to be "guilty" and Silverfox made is public, letting the rest of us know, I have no problem with this.

I kind of agree a little with everyone. These acts do need to be brought to the attention of the board but this needs to be done civilly and with some diligence.

bigloo 07-30-2009 04:25 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
I will actually extend what I said above. When last did you leave truly honest feedback? I did a trade back on CS with a BOTL with like 40 possitive feedback who totally screwed me over. What did I do? I left him a glowing feedback... I personally believe people like this start slipping way before they do their final dissapearing acts but we dont leave truly honest feedback... my 2c.

DavenportESQ 07-30-2009 04:27 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigloo (Post 487315)
This is where the thread derails. I think everyone can agree on the following:

1) Buyer Beware.
2) Contact mods immediately at first signs of problems.
3) If needed, leave negative feedback (just like ebay, negative feedback is so rare here that even one raises my alert level to maximum).
4) Stay classy (no need to lynch anyone in public.. while not likely in these cases, there have been cases were a BOTL disappears with money due to emergency hospitalization/etc).
5) If/when mods have banned the person, feel free to post your feelings like Silverfox did here. Dan was found to be "guilty" and Silverfox made is public, letting the rest of us know, I have no problem with this.

I kind of agree a little with everyone. These acts do need to be brought to the attention of the board but this needs to be done civilly and with some diligence.


So can we all move on?:2

markem 07-30-2009 04:28 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
We are starting to not only drag in other names, but having meta discussions about the meta discussion. Perhaps it is time for this thread to die or close.

bigloo 07-30-2009 04:31 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Mark,

If folks want to have a civilized conversation about these incidents, how to prevent them, how to improve things, I see no reason to lock the thread.

Lu

icehog3 07-30-2009 04:31 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
It's gettin' real close.....

Martin 07-30-2009 04:32 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

hotreds 07-30-2009 04:32 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Can't we all just get along?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/71/20...25ef776deb.jpg

Starscream 07-30-2009 04:33 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by markem (Post 487329)
We are starting to not only drag in other names, but having meta discussions about the meta discussion. Perhaps it is time for this thread to die or close.

:tpd:

yourchoice 07-30-2009 04:33 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
A possible compromise may be if next to the trader feedback number a percentage were displayed. I know I've seen this somewhere else, but I'm not sure if this version of vB supports it. Just a suggestion that may permit negative feedback to be more visible (ie, anything not 100%). People should still do their own homework, but a person's trade history would be more visible that way for all to see if you have a deal in the works with him/her or not.

icehog3 07-30-2009 04:33 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigloo (Post 487335)
Mark,

If folks want to have a civilized conversation about these incidents, how to prevent them, how to improve things, I see no reason to lock the thread.

Lu

The Mods discussed Dan long and hard, spoke to lots of affected parties, etc, before all this started. Thus, the thread about Dan was allowed to go forward. Throwing out another name, where all we have seen is negative feedback comments and we have none of the details, is a different matter completely. :2

bigloo 07-30-2009 04:35 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 487342)
The Mods discussed Dan long and hard, spoke to lots of affected parties, etc, before all this started. Thus, the thread about Dan was allowed to go forward. Throwing out another name, where all we have seen is negative feedback comments and we have none of the details, is a different matter completely. :2

Icehog... I agree... see my post above about not lynching. I do however feel if some positive actions came of this like leaving meaningful feedback, early reporting of problems, etc, came out of the thread it would be a positive ending. I agree 100% about dragging other names into this.

icehog3 07-30-2009 04:36 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigloo (Post 487346)
Icehog... I agree... see my post above about not lynching. I do however feel if some positive actions came of this like leaving meaningful feedback, early reporting of problems, etc, came out of the thread it would be a positive ending. I agree 100% about dragging other names into this.

Sorry, Lu, I was just using your post as a jumping off point, not implying that you were supporting the ideas I was discussing. :)

bigloo 07-30-2009 04:38 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Icehog :chr Lu --- all good:)

markem 07-30-2009 04:41 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigloo (Post 487346)
Icehog... I agree... see my post above about not lynching. I do however feel if some positive actions came of this like leaving meaningful feedback, early reporting of problems, etc, came out of the thread it would be a positive ending. I agree 100% about dragging other names into this.

No offense Lu (and I'll buy your drinks at our next herf if I did inadvertently offend you) but what of the lessons you list is new to anyone here? Does anyone read the stickies?

Why would anyone fail to leave meaningful feedback or trader information and why would anyone who suspects that they were taken remain silent (besides the obvious embarrassment factor)?

I think that this thread, early one, provided a cathartic release for those involved, but it has long since left that behind.

Resipsa 07-30-2009 04:43 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin (Post 487337)

Classic, and so apropos. Lololl

G G 07-30-2009 04:43 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Resipsa (Post 487299)
Sorry but I disagree. Why don't we all just start searching through the trader ratings and start posts and threads about every single person we suspect of being a bad trader, get the rope and string them up? To hell with guilt or innocence, they've been accused that's all we need right?

There's a process for people who feel aggrieved, and don't think it's in the spirit of this board what going on in this thread right now


Then I respectfully agree to disagree with you. I would prefer to know is all I am saying, and not just who I "suspect" If some one has negative feedback and no good reason why, I will steer clear of dealing with that person.:) You prolly apply that same level of being careful on ebay or anywhere else you are spending your money.

DavenportESQ 07-30-2009 04:46 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by markem (Post 487349)
No offense Lu (and I'll buy your drinks at our next herf if I did inadvertently offend you) but what of the lessons you list is new to anyone here? Does anyone read the stickies?

Why would anyone fail to leave meaningful feedback or trader information and why would anyone who suspects that they were taken remain silent (besides the obvious embarrassment factor)?

I think that this thread, early one, provided a cathartic release for those involved, but it has long since left that behind.

For once :tpd:
:r

Buena Fortuna 07-30-2009 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottw (Post 487258)
Maybe that mentality will help prevent this **** from happening again.

I seriously doubt it...it's a flawed world we live in filled with flawed people...including me and everyone here in the CA
Posted via Mobile Device

bigloo 07-30-2009 04:47 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Mark,

I call it the ebay effect. I will be the first to admit that while the majority of my feedback is accurate, I have left positive feedback for people who have not lived up to their end of the deal. I have never been screwed to the point where I recieved nothing, but I have had 2-3 week delayed shipping, received blind trade sticks well below par, etc, etc. I ignore the problems in fear that they will also leave poor feedback for me. I think this is a wider problem. It would honestly take theft to get me to leave negetive feedback which luckily has not happened to me. I believe people like Dan have warning signs well before they finish taking peoples money.

As far as the use of the thread, we are in agreement which is why I tried (maybe foolishly) to change its direction.

Lu

Darrell 07-30-2009 04:47 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
This thread has gotten so far from the original subject and has turned into a fight between brothers who have never scammed or hurt anyone on here.

It's time to take a deep breath and walk away from the thread. Anything contributed from this point will likely be clouded by anger and completely counter-productive.

[/soap box]

G G 07-30-2009 04:48 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Buena Fortuna (Post 487364)
I seriously doubt it...it's a flawed world we live in filled with flawed people...including me and everyone here in the CA
Posted via Mobile Device

Cannot argue with you there.:banger

The Poet 07-30-2009 04:50 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell (Post 487367)
This thread has gotten so far from the original subject and has turned into a fight between brothers who have never scammed or hurt anyone on here.

It's time to take a deep breath and walk away from the thread. Anything contributed from this point will likely be clouded by anger and completely counter-productive.

[/soap box]

FWIW, :tpd:

floydpink 07-30-2009 04:52 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
..

bigloo 07-30-2009 04:54 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by floydpink (Post 487379)
No dog in this fight myself, feel sorrry for those screwed over, hope the guy gets his due karma and all that, but....

This one really has me confused. Why on Earth did you leave "glowing feedback" when you were "totally screwed over" ???????

Been trying to stay out of controversy this year, but for the life of me, I can't make sense of this statement.

Read more... should become apparent (the "ebay" effect). No problem with the question though, I think truthful feedback is a problem and I dont believe the feedback left here (myself included) is always accurate.

CigarDood 07-30-2009 05:04 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigloo (Post 487335)
Mark,

If folks want to have a civilized conversation about these incidents, how to prevent them, how to improve things, I see no reason to lock the thread.

Lu

:tpd:

floydpink 07-30-2009 05:06 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
sorry, found your "ebay" thread after I posted, then deleted after reading more, which is tough in these multi page threads.

Hopefully I'm not a dying breed that speaks it as I mean it, and leaves feedback according to my experiences. not changing that for anything either.

You do nobody a favor, but the seller, by hiding negative experiences.

Starscream 07-30-2009 05:06 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=2509

This guy stole one of my cigars. He needs to be banned too.













(Just thought I would try to lighten the mood.);s

CigarDood 07-30-2009 05:09 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
http://downloads.shizo.eu/Crossfire/...s_business.jpg



This is the ultimate lighten the mood picture. :D

Don Fernando 07-30-2009 05:15 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by markem (Post 487248)
Wow. And because it was already in public on the trader feedback you felt that you just had to drag it into here? This thread has a nasty gang mentality that isn't reflecting well on this board.

Mark, I like to warm my fellow botl's for scammers, that's all.

Buena Fortuna 07-30-2009 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin (Post 487337)

Dan turned me into a newt :)
Posted via Mobile Device

bobarian 07-30-2009 05:38 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Fernando (Post 487431)
Mark, I like to warm my fellow botl's for scammers, that's all.

Unless you have personally been "scammed" and have discussed the situation with the mods, then such "warning" is unnecessary and beyond the spirit of CA. :rolleyes:

icehog3 07-30-2009 05:39 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Fernando (Post 487431)
Mark, I like to warm my fellow botl's for scammers, that's all.

But what if someone thinks another member is a scammer, but has no real proof, or is prejudiced, or mistaken, but we just let them call the person out on the Forum anyway? There are some ways to handle this to make sure everyone is as protected as possible. :2

icehog3 07-30-2009 05:39 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobarian (Post 487480)
Unless you have personally been "scammed" and have discussed the situation with the mods, then such "warning" is unnecessary and beyond the spirit of CA. :rolleyes:

Beat me to it, Bob. :)

bobarian 07-30-2009 05:46 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 487484)
Beat me to it, Bob. :)

:wo A first!

poker 07-30-2009 05:49 PM

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 
Ok folks, I think most of us said what they wanted to say, and those that are out money got a chance to vent.

Its run its course. Move along, nothing more to see.


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