Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Sorry if it offends any one but I have to agree. Getting these situations out in the open may keep me or you from getting stuck for some money.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Sorry but I disagree. Why don't we all just start searching through the trader ratings and start posts and threads about every single person we suspect of being a bad trader, get the rope and string them up? To hell with guilt or innocence, they've been accused that's all we need right?

There's a process for people who feel aggrieved, and don't think it's in the spirit of this board what going on in this thread right now

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I am not trying to say that here. I think that would be too aggressive but in the case of Dan let's say. If 3 -4 months goes by and you see that 4-5-6 people are giving negative feedback, maybe put up a bulletin or something so people can see if this is affecting them too. Some people forget what they are involved in. I remembered 3 months later that I had purchased from Dan so I began PM'ing him and finally, I got what I ordered but it was damaged. I dont think we need to expose every negative trader rating but if it is blatantly obvious that something is up, I think we owe it to one another to let each other know. If there is a defense (in this case, the accused is silent), it will hopefully be heard. If I know that you are getting screwed on something and I know this because it once happened to me, what kind of person am I if I don't let you know what is or what maybe is up?

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

This is where the thread derails. I think everyone can agree on the following:

1) Buyer Beware.
2) Contact mods immediately at first signs of problems.
3) If needed, leave negative feedback (just like ebay, negative feedback is so rare here that even one raises my alert level to maximum).
4) Stay classy (no need to lynch anyone in public.. while not likely in these cases, there have been cases were a BOTL disappears with money due to emergency hospitalization/etc).
5) If/when mods have banned the person, feel free to post your feelings like Silverfox did here. Dan was found to be "guilty" and Silverfox made is public, letting the rest of us know, I have no problem with this.

I kind of agree a little with everyone. These acts do need to be brought to the attention of the board but this needs to be done civilly and with some diligence.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I will actually extend what I said above. When last did you leave truly honest feedback? I did a trade back on CS with a BOTL with like 40 possitive feedback who totally screwed me over. What did I do? I left him a glowing feedback... I personally believe people like this start slipping way before they do their final dissapearing acts but we dont leave truly honest feedback... my 2c.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

So can we all move on?:2

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

We are starting to not only drag in other names, but having meta discussions about the meta discussion. Perhaps it is time for this thread to die or close.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Mark,

If folks want to have a civilized conversation about these incidents, how to prevent them, how to improve things, I see no reason to lock the thread.

Lu

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

It's gettin' real close.....

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Can't we all just get along?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/71/20...25ef776deb.jpg

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

:tpd:

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

A possible compromise may be if next to the trader feedback number a percentage were displayed. I know I've seen this somewhere else, but I'm not sure if this version of vB supports it. Just a suggestion that may permit negative feedback to be more visible (ie, anything not 100%). People should still do their own homework, but a person's trade history would be more visible that way for all to see if you have a deal in the works with him/her or not.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

The Mods discussed Dan long and hard, spoke to lots of affected parties, etc, before all this started. Thus, the thread about Dan was allowed to go forward. Throwing out another name, where all we have seen is negative feedback comments and we have none of the details, is a different matter completely. :2

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Icehog... I agree... see my post above about not lynching. I do however feel if some positive actions came of this like leaving meaningful feedback, early reporting of problems, etc, came out of the thread it would be a positive ending. I agree 100% about dragging other names into this.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Sorry, Lu, I was just using your post as a jumping off point, not implying that you were supporting the ideas I was discussing. :)

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Icehog :chr Lu --- all good:)

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

No offense Lu (and I'll buy your drinks at our next herf if I did inadvertently offend you) but what of the lessons you list is new to anyone here? Does anyone read the stickies?

Why would anyone fail to leave meaningful feedback or trader information and why would anyone who suspects that they were taken remain silent (besides the obvious embarrassment factor)?

I think that this thread, early one, provided a cathartic release for those involved, but it has long since left that behind.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Classic, and so apropos. Lololl

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Then I respectfully agree to disagree with you. I would prefer to know is all I am saying, and not just who I "suspect" If some one has negative feedback and no good reason why, I will steer clear of dealing with that person.:) You prolly apply that same level of being careful on ebay or anywhere else you are spending your money.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

For once :tpd:
:r

I seriously doubt it...it's a flawed world we live in filled with flawed people...including me and everyone here in the CA
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Mark,

I call it the ebay effect. I will be the first to admit that while the majority of my feedback is accurate, I have left positive feedback for people who have not lived up to their end of the deal. I have never been screwed to the point where I recieved nothing, but I have had 2-3 week delayed shipping, received blind trade sticks well below par, etc, etc. I ignore the problems in fear that they will also leave poor feedback for me. I think this is a wider problem. It would honestly take theft to get me to leave negetive feedback which luckily has not happened to me. I believe people like Dan have warning signs well before they finish taking peoples money.

As far as the use of the thread, we are in agreement which is why I tried (maybe foolishly) to change its direction.

Lu

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

This thread has gotten so far from the original subject and has turned into a fight between brothers who have never scammed or hurt anyone on here.

It's time to take a deep breath and walk away from the thread. Anything contributed from this point will likely be clouded by anger and completely counter-productive.

[/soap box]

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Cannot argue with you there.:banger

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

FWIW, :tpd:

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

..

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Read more... should become apparent (the "ebay" effect). No problem with the question though, I think truthful feedback is a problem and I dont believe the feedback left here (myself included) is always accurate.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

:tpd:

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

sorry, found your "ebay" thread after I posted, then deleted after reading more, which is tough in these multi page threads.

Hopefully I'm not a dying breed that speaks it as I mean it, and leaves feedback according to my experiences. not changing that for anything either.

You do nobody a favor, but the seller, by hiding negative experiences.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=2509

This guy stole one of my cigars. He needs to be banned too.













(Just thought I would try to lighten the mood.);s

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

http://downloads.shizo.eu/Crossfire/...s_business.jpg



This is the ultimate lighten the mood picture. :D

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Mark, I like to warm my fellow botl's for scammers, that's all.

Dan turned me into a newt :)
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Unless you have personally been "scammed" and have discussed the situation with the mods, then such "warning" is unnecessary and beyond the spirit of CA. :rolleyes:

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

But what if someone thinks another member is a scammer, but has no real proof, or is prejudiced, or mistaken, but we just let them call the person out on the Forum anyway? There are some ways to handle this to make sure everyone is as protected as possible. :2

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Beat me to it, Bob. :)

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

:wo A first!

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Ok folks, I think most of us said what they wanted to say, and those that are out money got a chance to vent.

Its run its course. Move along, nothing more to see.