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especially if it isnt sugar sweetened kool ade

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I understand you not liking Hacker being attacked for his looks, you're right, it has no bearing on anything. But I notice you haven't addressed the belief by many experienced people here that Hacker's assertion that cello "halts the aging process" is complete nonsense. I would be more interested in your thoughts on that.

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Thanks for your patience's
In the photo below are some of my Cain cigars that are 4 years old note the plume on the unwrapped ones where plume is an indication of richer aging

For me a cellophane wrapped cigar is more protected but in this dramatic 4 year aging photo it dose to me show that unwrapped cigars do age faster (and it's NOT mold)

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=8037

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Wow In that case, I have some old cheese in the back of my fridge that has plume all over it in my fridge!

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"plume is an indication of richer aging"

On what do you base that assertion?

To the best of my knowledge (I'm no Dick Hacker), plume is just an indication that the cigars were well stored.

And I'm not seeing any picture in your post.

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That's mold, not plume. Mold forms in spots (colonies) which can be clearly seen in this photo, plume is a very fine crystalline dusting that will evenly coat the cigar.

Plume is pretty random really. Sometimes it forms, sometimes it doesn't. I've seen it form on cigars within 6-8 months (without removing the cello), and seen 15-20 year old cigars that never develop it. Has more to do with the capa leaf than anything else, if it were actually about "richer aging", every cigar in the humidor with the Cu-Avana maduros that plumed in 6-8 months would have also developed plume.

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Gotta agree with the mold crowd here. Plume is the cigar oils crystalizing which can cause a haze on the cigar. This depends on many factors in the leaf and it won't affect all cigars. It won't be furry and not bunched up in my experience. From your photos, only circular areas of your cigar have enough oil to rise to the surface and crystalize? Now that just doesn't make sense does it?

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Sorry Daniel, that is most definitely mold...

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Oh geez... another plume vs. mold argument. These always end well. :rolleyes:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...plume-mold.jpg

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Yup, clear mold.
Just go ahead and wipe them down.
Not much different than what happens at times in tubos.

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I'm starting to realize the good old boy click here and hurt people hurt others with judgmental criticism, no need to waste my time with despairing old men

So one more for the flaming pinhole view of life crowd
4 year old Gurkhas with out wrapper and aged plume

Definition: Plume or bloom is a fine white powder or dust which forms on cigars when oils exude from the tobacco as a result of aging. Plume is a good sign that a cigar has been properly aged, and it can easily be brushed off.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=8039

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Well alrighty then.
Shovel used.
Fuel thrown.
Match lit.

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Except that the picture above is showing mold. You can flame all you want at the CA Family Members, but that won't change the facts....

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Yep, mold.

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So, if people disagree with your opinions and provide factual evidence to back it up, you now resort to name calling and insults? Are you so closed minded to that you cannot possibly admit that you may be wrong? Or should all here cast aside their knowledge and experience and genuflect before you?

Your quote only validates what I posted. That plume indicates cigars have been properly aged/stored. Plume does not add any flavor or richness to the cigar.

And, honestly, if you absolutely insist that the pictures you provided are not mold, then no amount of civil discourse will help you. I would be willing to bet that even your idol, Richard Hacker, would inform you it's mold. Here's an idea, post the picture and question to another half-dozen cigar communities and see what they have to say.

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BTW, if we want to split hairs and say plume is proper aging, let's knock ourselves out but "proper" truly has nothing to do with it. It has to do with oils in the wrapper and the moisture it had when rolled/boxed.
So, if if that is considered proper aging when it is a natural process for cigars rolled and packaged in this manner, then yeah, they are aging properly when there is plume or, they are just doing what they were going to do anyway, if properly humidified, and kept stored long term.

Mold, is mold, is mold, generally from over humidification.

Old farts generally do know a few things or two. It's the failure of young ones to tap that knowledge and attempt to reinvent the wheel that is truly sad.

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Also moldy cigars....oils do not just spring out of a single spot and crystalize into a white puff my friend.

BTW, mold can also be easily brushed off and leave no marks on the wrapper.

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I agree those sticks are moldy. My experience has been plume seems to materialize more evenly not in one spot. Yes both mold or plume can be brushed off with out marking the wrapper unless the mold is really in an advanced stage. The flavor the sinus drip the light headed nausea are very good indicators as well that it is most likely mold.

One more thing not all of us are old farts! Hell I'm not over 50 yet.

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I know everyone is saying the same thing, but take a look at the cigar on the right. If it was plume, it would not be on the lower band as well, it would just be on the cigar.

That is definitely mold if it is growing on the band. Just brush it off, you should be fine. I would also check your humidity just to be safe.

I have received plenty of boxes that look worse than that. And once you brush them off, if your humidity is fine, it shouldn't come back.

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Good point, plume won't be on the band but mold will actually grow on the paper. Good catch.

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cigar.com has a nice post with pictures about the difference between mold and plume. There are pics, but also a very good description.

http://www.cigar.com/cs/forums/630996/ShowThread.aspx

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Mark,
Awesome article and photos right on point with the overwhelming consensus expressed on this thread.
Awesome post!

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I have to agree -- that is a great reference! Thanks for taking the time to find and share it.

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First off, as many have pointed out, that is mold on the Cains. Not because we are a good-old-boy clique or enjoy being disagreeable...but because it's a fact.

And if it were plume, you make the jump that this one case vaildates Hacker's erred hypothesis across the board. I had a nickel with Jefferson on both sides once, so I might assert that all nickels have two Jeffersons. I would be wrong.

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Damn, was never worried before but now I am a little, I have some cigars that have spotted white on them, that does wipe off with a wipe o the finger. I have other cigars in that same humidor that have been in there longer that do not have anything on them. My digital hydrometer says my sticks stay between 63-73 depending on the season. Am I ok?

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You can wipe the mold off any way you feel comfortable with: finger, soft cloth, etc.

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I have to confess to being confused on the mold and plume analysis myself. Mold that is blue is only mold. White stuff is a bit more tricky. Plume is supposed to be crystals that appear on the wrapper and are basically sugar. White pockets can be mineral growths and are hard and stalky and tend to be all round splotches but furry white stuff is at best not right. As the article below will state wipe off white stuff and hope it doesn't return. Even if its not mold it tastes odd.

http://www.cigarjournal.co/index.php...-ausgabe201001

I recommend this article. My two cents.

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I've seen actual plume a few times...fwiw, I tend to dig through the cigars with plume to the second level. All it shows is proper storage, it doesn't make the cigar taste any better.

To me it kind of looks like when I get a little too friendly at the strip club...the cigars have a glitter-like shimmer over the entire wrapper where the oils have come to the surface and crystallized.

Found a good pic:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps3b3b3782.jpg

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NOOOO Outlaw God, don't listen to these trollers and haters! You are correct! You keep doing you baby.

Cello OFF! YOU GOT PLUME! Gurkha 4 life!

The icehog has never had the opportunity to experience the indelible flavors that is the Gurkha...whatever that is you got there.

And Huy posted the picture of Mandy Patinkin from the show Homeland. I don't think that's the author...unless that's his pseudonym. In which case, I believe him, just look how full that beard is!

PS - did you guys know that Mandy Patinkin was Inigo Montoya from Princess Bride? Life changing news, I know.

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Don't listen to him Outlaw God. He is WRONG.

The powder is indeed plume. Plume not from tobacco mind you, but from the solidifying flavorings and additives that were applied on the Gurkha tobacco to deliver its incredible flavors. We need to educate these folks. Do you have more pictures of other cigars?

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Serious question, what happens to you if you smoke a cigar covered in mold?

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Good question and I've seen it discussed before but not by what I would perceive as experts and that would require someone study it and it's hard enough to find anyone studying cigars as it is. My thoughts are it's not a problem unless you have an allergy to the mold. Basically, mold is mold. Your not eating it, your burning it. While it may taste and smell horrible, by the very nature of you burning it your not inhaling the spores but you can guarantee some spore excitation so your going to inhale some hence the allergy component.

People live around and eat mold all the time and it basically comes down to whether or not your allergic to that particular mold. Most cigar mold will be on the level of a food type of mold or your typical black varieties. As CigarJournal noted though, what people typically call mold is often just mineral particulates but if left unattended, i.e. you love white spotty ploom and cheer it along to grow, then mold will grow on the particulates and at that point, you've got a mess. Your best bet is to wipe off all that surface junk, clip the foots if you see it plooming out of the foot etc. I've smoked Grayclifs that were starting to grow stuff out of the foot and I just clipped them back and lit it up. I've got allergies that make grown men tremble and I didn't have any problems.

I'll be damned if I'm surrendering a cigar to whatever crap that wants to take it from me. I'll plug beetle holes, wipe my cigars and purge it with fire and a smile.

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If you've got something pertinent to say, say it.
If you're just stirring the pot, I advise you to stop.

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Could be true. However why willingly inhale extra mold that may or may not cause a problem. Since it is so easy to prevent the act of smoking a cigar with mold why bother asking if it would be a problem in the first place. Brush it off and/or wipe the cigar down with vodka if you are really paranoid. :tu

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Just playing both sides of the coin, Jason. If a person truly believes that he has plume vs mold and insists on smoking said cigar, I was just wondering if there would be any downsides to it.

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Well I can understand that. I'd have to it would depend on a lot of variables. We all know black mold causes issues but others do not.

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Greg, there is also really no upside. I've only smoked a few sticks with actual plume(bloom) and have not noticed anything special that would have me seeking them out. While it does add to the aesthetic I have not seen any review that can point to special flavors added by the plume. :2

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So a question for you guys, I know your going to say get rid of the humidifier. But, have any of you guys had a crystal humidifier drip on cigars. Now here is the catch this humidifier has not been filled in a few weeks (not needed). My humi level is at 68%, my humidor is in a warmer room in my house. The temp of the room is around 80ish. The humidifier is was in the lid, sense this happened it has been moved. Non of my cigars where damp, just one cellophane wrapper was wet. What could this be. I am thinking think that the humidifier produced condensation. Which i did not know this could happen. I will change out to gel but i am just wondering what could have caused this.

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I'm new at these "codes" so what are n/c cigars?

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Non- cuban

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Otay! Thanks

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Right in this very section about 11 or so lines below this is

Sticky: What does all that mean? Cigar Terms and Acronyms

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Moisture of any kind dripping on your cigars is not a good thing. And, since cellophane is porous it will not protect your cigars in any way against water damage.

Further, switching over to gel will not solve the problem. If your humidifier is dripping then your humidor is likely too humid.

I would recommend beads (any beads) over a crystal humidifier or gel. Just my :2...

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Personally, I do not have a large cabinet humidor or a walk in. I have a closet and the overflow goes into the guestroom.

The method I use is rather simple. I have a large thermodynamic fridge that can fit about 50 boxes of cigars. This fridge carries boxes I want to acclimate to my desired climate, which is 68/70. Some boxes I keep in there to smoke and to age in that humidor. But for 99% of my boxes, I vacuum pack them or wrap them, and store them at the acclimated temperature and preferred relative humidity.

Using pv=nrt, due to my pressure and temperature being constant, my humidity is held at my preferred setting. I keep a couple hygrometers in some vped bags to see, and have been very successful. Generally, I do 2-3 boxes a bag, so that any significant temperature will be absorbed and spread across the volume.

This allows me to skip the whole institution of freezing (and as unintended consequence minimizes risk of beetles), which creates intracellular ice formations which destroys essential oils (think freezer burns) - because the delta of temperature is too rapid in non commercial freezers.

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Hey Marc. Couple of questions on your setup. Interesting stuff.

Do vacuum packed cigars age the same since there is basically no air or RH movement? What does putting them in a controlled RH environment even do since they are basically airtight?

Also, you have any links that test this intercellular ice formations and how this affects the cigar flavor? Would like to dig deeper into that. Never heard of a person being able to tell if a cigar was frozen prior.

Thanks.

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You guys should probably start a new thread. I am pretty sure most beginners are not worried about theories on long term aging and storage.

Just my 2 cents.

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:tpd:
This thread is for Q & A - not for discussion. A new thread is a good idea.
Besides, I'm no sure what question Marc's post (#2194) answers.

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Outlaw God, I don't know if you're still reading this thread or not but this is good advice. There's no good ol' boy network here that's out to get you, there are simply people that are telling you the truth...some, rather bluntly. :) I think you'll realize this if you take pnoon's advice and post your pictures elsewhere and ask simply "Is this plume or mold?"

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I agree with you on what question he is answering.

But I did ask questions in reference to his comments.

- Do vacuum packed cigars age the same since there is basically no air or RH movement?

- What does putting them (vacuum packed sticks) in a controlled RH environment even do since they are basically airtight?

- Also, you have any links that test this intercellular ice formations and how this affects the cigar?

I kept them together so people would have a frame of reference based on his thinking. Reading through the many threads, it seems there are times where people are building upon others questions or statements.

In any case, ;s won't happen again.

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Hmm. Bleu cigars huh.

You could scrape some of the residue off onto a slide and have a look under a microscope. If you don't have a microscope.... Well, you should get one - they're awfully fun to have esp a dissection microscope. I haven't noticed any on my cigars but if and when I do I'll make some pics (my 'scope has USB) and post them up.

Dr.Phil