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That was Ben's father. Don't remember the name though. Horace did show up in the jungle during a previous season. He was cutting down a tree when one of the Oceanic survivors (Locke, maybe?) stumbled upon him. Horace was talking to (whomever) and his nose sarted to bleed. Anyone else remember the scene and who the survivor was that was present? |
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Yes, he told Locke he had work to do....
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Ben's father's name was Roger. I'm re-watching season 3 with my wife (she never saw the first few seasons) and we just watched the episode where Hurley finds the Dharma van in the jungle with Roger Work Man behind the wheel. |
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Roger Workman. Man, that dude has a funny last name! ;) :D |
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Any ideas on who was born? I am thinking that the identity of that child (boy?) is going to be important in the backstory.
It can't be Locke, as Locke would have already been alive as a child somewhere else. It can't be Ben, as he will already be one of the children on the island (Horace is too old by this point, compared to his relative youth when he welcomed Ben to the island). And it couldn't be Whidmore. Once again, wrong timeline. Could it be Karl? That just wouldn't be interesting. Karl is probably a little young for that as well. Ya, alot too young. Scratch that. Farraday, Desmond, Sawyer, Jack...all possibilites (with significant backflips in the story), but all fairly useless to complicate things in that fashion. |
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<-----:mad: |
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:fu |
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hehe, man, way to do a "foot in mouth"
NOTE TO SELF: Before mocking name you have heard, check to see if any people you know have said name. |
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--Maybe I shouldn't say this, someone here might be named Horace. --No way, I've never met anyone named that. --I should check real quick anyway. --No way, it's already typed. APOLOGIES TO ALL HORACES. HORACII? HORI? |
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Does anyone know the significance (if there is one) of Sawyer using the name "La Fleur" when questioned by Horace? The episode was named La Fleur and I keep hearing talk on other forums about it relating to something important from past episode but I can't think of anything?
Oh and damnit Bao.. I need my Lost Notes fix!!!!!!! :D |
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http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/at...1&d=1236282541 |
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Lost 5 - episode 8 "Lafleur"
1. Finally, what we've all been waiting for.... Sawyer washed his hair! This was a great character development episode...I guess we needed a mental break from all the heavy science fiction stuff. See attached screenshot... for the ladies. 2. Sawyer has always been in the front-running for the most transformed characters on the show (along with Locke). Remember how the Island cured Rose's cancer and allowed Locke to flourish physically and spiritually; and remember Locke, Jack and all the Oceanic 6 basically disintegrated as people the longer they spent away from the Island. ''This place is death?" Well, sometimes. But other times, this place can be life - but it requires peace of character and being locked into your intended destiny. And right now, Sawyer is groovin'... 3. So... the big question.... who does Horace's baby turn out to be? A boy born in 1977... we never got his name. It can't be Locke or Ben. They aren't the right age plus we saw their births in the real world. Could be Jacob... after all, when Locke had a vision about Horace, Horace was building a cabin for him and his wife. Then again, Richard knew about Jacob in 1954. The boy would be about 27 when flight 815 crashes in 2004. 4. The Dharma/ Others Truce: Why would Others kill Paul and try to kidnap Amy? Did Amy and Paul venture into Other territory that was supposed to be off limits? Remember when Tom and the Others surrounded Jack and the Losties and threatened something like "this is our island, stay away from this side of it" or something like that? Or, is the truce only "you don't kill us, we don't kill you?" I believe, at this time on the island, we can assume that the Others are currently under Widmore's reign of power (Widmore's words to Locke last week about ruling peacefully and for such a long period of time... 3 decades to be exact). 5. Why did Charlotte's body disappear when she died? Perhaps she really isn't dead... now. Maybe in this new 1974, Faraday doesn't tell her not to come back here (which sparked her life long search for this mythical place she remembered). Then again, Faraday keeps telling us "What happened happened" so he shouldn't have been able to change that. Another theory is that once the group landed in 1974, Charlotte's body disappeared because a person cannot exist in two places at the same time -- dead or alive. 6. Horace Goodspeed recap: We know from the season 3 episode ''The Man Behind The Curtain'' that Horace Goodspeed and a woman named Olivia aided Roger Linus during Ben's unexpected birth in the woods. (So many premies on the show. That can't be a coincidence.) We also know Roger and Ben migrated to the Island at the invitation of the Goodspeeds when Ben was a boy. So, where is Olivia? Did she not enter the picture until the late 1970's when Ben comes to the island? Perhaps Horace and Amy split by then? Oh, and Olivia was Ben's teacher when he was a Dharma student. See attached Olivia screencap. 7. Speaking of Horace... Horus is a god of the Ancient Egyptian religion, most commonly knows by the Greek version Horus, of the Egyptian Heru/ Har. Horus was an ancient and important deity. More on ancient Egypt later. See attached image of Horus. 8. Note how 1974-1977 ON the island is similar to 2005-2008 OFF the island. Some distinct parallels: The Left Behinders' Dharma drama very much echoed the Oceanic 6's off-Island ordeal, complete with cover-up lie, a dead body to haul around, and a con man-turned-shepherd. (Ben = Sawyer here.) 9. Have you noticed how Season 5 of Lost resembles Season 2? Season 2 emphasized the Man of Science/ Man of Faith conflict and introduced us to the Dharma Initiative mythology. Season 5: Lots of faith/ reason; lots of Dharma. When you consider that Season 4 mirrored Season 3 (split group story lines; a climactic attack on the castaways; similar coffin/ ''We've got to go back'' cliffhanger), what you have is a saga that's doubling back on itself. What would that mean for season 6? How will it echo season 1? Something to think about. 10. The original Oceanic 815 flight.... did Jack and company FLASH off the flight like they flashed off the Ajira 316 flight last week? Some items to support this theory: The Losties have commented several times that they survived the Oceanic crash with just superficial injuries. In one earlier episode Sayid is talking to Kate and says there is no way they should have survived that 815 crash. Maybe it's because they flashed off of it! 11. Let's talk about ancient Egypt: The statue: The island's large statue looked Egyptian. Skirt, but no shirt -probably male. Those appear to be ankhs in the hands - symbolic of life in general and eternal life, specifically (also shown on the necklace Amy took from Paul's neck). And on the head, two pointy ears and a rectangular headpiece. The island's statue is not Horus, as Horus had the head of a falcon. So, other possibilities... Anubis: the Egyptian God of mummification and the afterlife. Over the course of time, Anubis became considered more the gatekeeper and ruler of the underworld, the "Guardian of the veil" (of "death"). Consequently, he was said to protect souls as they journeyed there, and thus be the patron of lost souls." See attached photo. Taweret: the Egyptian Goddess of fertility, the protector of pregnancy and childbirth. In the episode "D.O.C" Juliet told Sun that the men were extra-fertile on the Island. While we cannot be sure whether or not the statue is still in its original form once the crew landed in 1974, we did see Juliet deliver a healthy baby 3 years afterward. Perhaps the moment the statue was destroyed and/ or crumbled was when the Island pregnancy problems began. Like Anubis, Taweret also carries an ankh. See attached photo. Other Egyptian references: The hieroglyphics in The Hatch and on The Temple were Egyptian. Weren't ancient Egyptians fond of eyeliner? So, Is Richard Alpert Egyptian? Richard Alpert = RA (the sun god?). FUN FACT FROM NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC'S WEBSITE: ''Both men and women in ancient Egypt wore a sort of eyeliner. The paint was made of minerals mixed with water, ground on palettes, and kept in tubes. It was worn for adornment and perhaps also to reduce the sun's glare.'' I'm half kidding here as so many people have made fun of the fact that Richard appears to have on eyeliner. 12. No LOST next week. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3610/...836bdd54_o.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3366/...013423e8_o.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3639/...197c218b_o.jpg |
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>>> EDIT 3/6/2009 2:06 PM >>>
Yes, the Charlotte birth year thing seems to be an issue, but think about this: The information Ben rattled off about Ms. Lewis in "Confirmed Dead" was incorrect. She's clearly well into toddler stage by 1974, so obviously she was not born in 1979 as Ben stated last season. This may just mean that Charlotte lied and/or Abaddon purposefully changed her background information in whatever file Michael read on the freighter -- which he then passed to Ben. It's just one of three things: 1. Ben lied about Charlotte's birth year, 2. The information that Ben got was wrong, or 3. It was not Charlotte. >>> Notes >>> #11. I'm going with Taweret. See attached pics. Similarities to the Island Statue: The ears are short, the hair or head dress is long, the square-ish headpiece, not to mention that it just makes sense! Taweret is the protector of women during pregnancy and childbirth!! Sometimes carrying the ankh (eternal life) in one hand and the sa (symbol of protection) in the other. And one other thing that's different in each picture I look at, but most of them depict Taweret with only 4 toes. #5. Taken from a website "Daniel Faraday sees a young red-haired girl at the Dharma Initiative camp in 1974 whom he believes is Charlotte Staples Lewis. However, Ben, when reciting her biography ("Confirmed Dead") stated she was born July 2, 1979, approximately 5 years too late to be Charlotte if Ben's information from Michael was correct (a birthdate of 1969 would be closer if this girl is indeed a young Charlotte). It remains possible, however, that the girl was not Charlotte, and Daniel was mistaken due to his grief." Only time will tell! Have a nice weekend, everyone! |
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More great notes. Man, I'm going to have to watch the whole series again to catch a part of what has been happening. Kinda like drinking from a fire hose.
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Great job, once again, Bao!! :tu
It's going to be a LONG two weeks. I've never been so involved, engrossed and obsessed in a TV program in all my years. This has got to be one of the most complicated, yet, extremely well written shows every produced IMHO. I'm going out to have a cigar and reflect on the "notes". Keep up the good work, Bao!!:tu |
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So our losties have been part of the Dharma inititive for 3 yrs but where is young Ben Linus? He came to the island when he was about 10? And how old is he in 2007? What was the name of the episode about Ben's early years?
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The Man Behind the Curtain. Ben is 11 yrs old when he comes to the island. I am not sure how old he is when the Oceanic flight crashes on the island, but my guess is that he and his dad Roger arrived on the island in the early 70's.
Also, Hurley, Jack and Kate meet up with Dharma, Locke and Ben are with the survivors of the plane crash...where is Sun and Sayid? |
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The new survivors told Locke that a woman (Sun?) and the pilot (Lepidis) took off with a boat and the manifest...I wonder if they took Sayid too? |
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So, what are your thoughts on last night's episode!?!?!?
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I liked it but for some reason didn't love it..
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Glad boy Ben showed up-but it seems the adult Ben is at a different time than the boy Ben, as is Locke, the pilot and Sun. Not many new surprise-setting up everyone's new position in the pecking order.
What about Ethan? He is born to a Dharma woman in the mid-seventies, but when we originally meet him he is with Ben and the Others-He should have died in the massacre, don't you think? And where is Daniel? |
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Season 5 Episode 9 "Namaste"
1. Baby Ethan. How does he go from Dharma to Other? Assuming that the Purge took place in December 1992 Ethan was just a teenager when his people were wiped out by Ben and the Others. Did Ethan befriend Ben, or was he taken by the Others? If Ethan did befriend Ben and help bring down Dharma from the inside, then he helped kill his own father (Horace) - just like Ben and Locke both did. Recap on Ethan (assuming the baby grows up to be the Ethan we all know and love) - he was the Other who infiltrated the Losties' camp, abducted pregnant Claire, then got killed by Charlie after he came back to abduct Claire again. 2. Lapidus, the Ajira flight and the runway. Before the Ajira plane "landed" we see the co-pilot's surprise as they flash to day from night. This is similar to the helicopter rides to and from the freighter - either they gained or lost a few hours during the time storm, just like Daniel's model rocket. Also, when the co-pilot radioed for help we hear the original island radio transmission playing. Remember that Rousseau had actually turned the message off about two seasons ago so we may have proof that things can change and that Faraday was wrong (things can change). Following the one time string theory, hearing that message in 2007 would be an impossibility. The existence of the runway is tremendous because it slaps us in the face with one big fact: all along, Ben knew that he'd need it. He'd instructed the Others to build it (remember that Sawyer and Kate were prisoners at this time and helped build it) without telling them why. Why didn't Sun flash off the flight with the other Oceanic 6? Maybe because she couldn't exactly recreate her original flight circumstance. In this episode she tells Ilana "I was traveling alone" whereas the first time around she was traveling with Jin. Ms. Hawking said that the results would be unpredictable if the original flight was not perfectly recreated. 3. Sun and Lapidus meet Christian. There was definitely a suggestion to connect Christian and Smokey by having the two in the same vicinity at the same time. "You have a bit of a journey ahead of you,'' Christian told Sun. Creepy! (By the way, I am LOVING Lapidus. He's such a great character and I hope he's in the show full time now.) Again, it seems like Faraday's theory may be wrong... Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Lapidus are now seeing. The Whispers in this scene say "Not on the List at all" or something like that. Meanwhile in 1977, the Dharma member is asking Kate whether she's been checked in at the Processing Center, and what her name is. He says, "You're not on my list...and you're not on the sub's manifest either." Similarities... 4. The Swan Hatch is still being built. I was under the impression that it was the energy from the frozen wheel and/ or the Jughead bomb that drew the Dharma people to the island in the first place. Hmmm. Guess not. Perplexing, no? We learned in this episode that the Swan hatch is most likely being built in hostile territory. This would explain why it's buried, and why the entrance door to the Swan Hatch is kept hidden. It makes sense that the Others buried Jughead far away from their camp - this would make it easier for Dharma to bury an entire station beyond their truce-line without being found out. If Dharma registered a strange energy source coming from the ground they might build a station just to study it. 5. In the March 20, 2007 official podcast the show's creator said he did not believe The Others knew about the Swan hatch; however, he acknowledged that the Others might have observed the Swan through the monitors in the Pearl Hatch, after they took over the other Dharma hatches. Therefore, Radzinksy and Kelvin were not killed during the purge along with the rest of Dharma. 6. Sawyer and Jack.... Jack took Sawyer's speech surprisingly well. He knew Sawyer was right... that people died because Jack reacted without always thinking things through. This new Jack (who now has faith since Locke died) seems to be just rolling with it. I wish the two would work together without all the power struggles. Ugh, boys. 7. When Sayid's federal officer was awakened by Caesar after the crash she whispered ''Sarah.'' The only Sarah on the show so far has been Jack's ex-wife. 8. We finally get to meet Radzinsky! Remember that he was Kelvin Inman's partner inside the Swan Hatch before Desmond crashed on the island. We only know about him from what Kelvin told Desmond. Radzinsky was the creator of the blast door map (see attached), which he worked on with the aid of his photographic memory. He discovered how to fake a lockdown, which made it possible to work on the map, as the door was lowered during this time. He also edited the Swan Orientation film. Kelvin explained to Desmond that, while he was asleep, Radzinsky committed suicide by putting a shotgun in his mouth and firing it, causing a blood stain on the ceiling. Because of the protocol Kelvin had to bury him within 108 minutes. So, if Radzinsky was part of Dharma and knew all about the hatches why did he create that map on the blast door? The map suggests that he is trying to figure things out, but he would already know these things (location of the hatches, etc). Before Kelvin arrived on the island he was involved with the U.S. military in the Gulf War. During the war, he was connected to Sam Austen, Kate's stepfather, and manipulated Sayid, forcing him to act as a translator and torture Iraqi prisoners for information (although later Kelvin reveals that he can speak Arabic himself). After the war ended, Kelvin transferred a handcuffed Sayid to a deserted area and gave him money, including "bus fare" back to Ramadi. Addressing Sayid's disapproval of the torture methods he forced him to use, he tells him in Arabic that it will come in handy in the future before releasing him. 9. Another thing about Christian in the Dharma building. He points out that there's a 1978 recruitment photo on the wall too. Does this mean we'll see another year's worth of our main characters living in Dharma time? Originally the purge happened in 1992, but there were no recruitment photos on the wall after 1978 this time around. Did Dharma just stop recruiting in 1978? Not originally because Kelvin was recruited AFTER he was in the war with Sayid in 1991! 10. Remember how I emailed that the seasons of LOST are running parallel (Season 4 echoed season 3, season 5 echoes season 2). Sayid has become season 5's Henry Gale! A prisoner who must lie about his true identity for a greater purpose. 11. So, now that Ben and Sayid are meeting in 1977, will 2007 Ben have a new memory of Sayid (like Desmond did of Faraday)? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3475/...14373744_o.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3250/...5e323082_o.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3418/...bed90c2e_o.jpg |
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I'm not sure that I'm on board with the whole "jughead" is buried where they built the Swan theory. I'm not aware that nuclear bombs are magnetic. Plus, the hatch imploded not exploded as a nuke would do.
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After watching this week's episode last night and during my daily commute this morning, I thought of the parallelism of Ben and Sayid. Especially after he was captured by Jin and the other Darma guy. My memory is sketchy, but the food thing in the camp rings a bell too. Didn't Locke offer food and was sympathetic to Ben when he was captured? Is Sayid the new Ben and will do whatever is necessary? I can't help but wonder????
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WHOA! Last night's episode blew my freakin mind! I'm still trying to digest everything!
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There is no way Sayid was successful...No way at all!:hm
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If Sawyer & Company are actually on the same timeline as the original Dharma Initiative, then I agree. Ms. Hawking was a firm believer in not being able to alter an event timeline once it was established (e.g., Desmond & the dude with the red shoes.) However, we have seen how the Losties--Locke in particular--have been able to alter future events by interacting with people in the past (Richard, Jughead, etc.), so I'm not so sure now... What if the island reset to the 70s and is now on a NEW timeline (i.e., it's along a different path/node?) Can't the Losties impact that timeline, so that Sayid could be successful? And what would that do to the Ben who is stuck in the present along a different timeline with Lapidus & Sun? On a related topic: Ben continues to get his ass kicked week after week. This time by dear old dad. :D |
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LOST 5 - Episode 10 "He's Our You"
1. Young Sayid's sacrificial act (killing the chicken) reminded me of Mr. Eko's flashback, in which warlords ordered Eko's brother Yemi to kill an unarmed man or be killed himself. Yemi couldn't do it. To save his life, Eko stepped up and did the deed. 2. The book that young Ben brings to Sayid is "A Separate Reality." The text is basically a thesis on the need for psychotropic drugs to achieve a proper state for seeing an alternate reality. 3. "You never brought me a sandwich" spoken by Ben's dad, Roger. This is the same line Ben gave Juliet back when she was bringing Jack all those great lunches in season 3 at the Hydra Station. 4. Radzinsky threatened to call Ann Arbor, Michigan for guidance on what to do with Sayid. If you remember correctly, the hippie couple who started the Dharma Initiative were Gerald and Karen DeGroot (at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor). We saw them in the Swan and Pearl Hatch Orientation films. 5. Remember when Goodwin's wife, Harper, told Juliet (Ben's crush at the time) "you look so much like her". Perhaps adult Ben liked Juliet because she reminded him of someone he had a crush on when he was a kid in Dharmaville... Juliet! Hahahaha! 6. Themes we've seen before - mind altering drugs, a teepee-like sweat lodge, pulling a gun to shoot someone to fix a mess. From the season 3 episode "Further Instructions" where Locke's flashback revealed he lived with pot-growing hippies who were infiltrated by an FBI agent named Eddie. The on-island scenes in that episode showed Locke in a sweat lodge experimenting with drugs to help him realize his purpose on the island. I love how this show repeats themes! 7. Sawyer's Long Con? When Sawyer and Richard met to discuss the business of Paul's body (2 weeks ago) perhaps Sawyer told Richard that his people will help orchestrate the Purge. This may be why Richard tells Ben he'll have to "be very patient". I believe Sawyer is playing the Dharma Initiative and keeping his friends in the dark for their own safety. He's good at pulling a long con (remember how he pulled a long con on Cassidy and on the Losties to get the guns?). 8. Popular opinion is that Ben knew he had to solidify Sayid's killing nature and his hatred for Ben so that when returning to the past, Sayid would shoot him. It seems that Sayid's hunting down and killing of Widmore's buddies never really meant anything in the grand scheme of things. Not only were these killings unnecessary, they might not even have been related to anything other than planting the seeds of murder in Sayid's brain. To hone his killing instinct. Ben orchestrated the whole thing. He even lied about how Locke died so that Sayid would spring back into action to protect Hurley. In summary... Ben wanted Sayid to shoot his younger self and helped him reach the mental/ emotional state he would need to be in to shoot an innocent child for the greater good. 9. Maybe Ben getting shot in 1977 will somehow delay or prevent him from joining the hostiles (I'm assuming he survives the gun shot)? Maybe the purge will be avoided? Somehow 2007 Ben understands that getting shot in the past will cause ripples through time that will change things in a direction favorable to his master plan. 10. A theory I read and liked... "Have you considered that maybe the 2004 the 815ers were in was never meant to be? Maybe by going back in time and changing things, Sawyer and friends are course correcting flukes in the past that weren't supposed to happen. Things went wrong...maybe because Locke didn't make it to the island on time, and Ben wasn't supposed to kill all the Dharma people, and Locke would have been leader earlier... maybe the wrong side won and so now they're back in time to change it." 11. Attached is a close-up of Hurley's jumpsuit with Dharma kitchen logo. Someone pointed it out and I thought it was funny so I grabbed a photo of it. It's a chef's hat with an X below. It reminds me of a skull and crossbones. Funny for a kitchen logo! :) |
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Ben gets shot. Bravo. Well done. Finally an episode where I come away somewhat if not completely satisfied.
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One question I had (well, there's more than one, but just one that I thought might have an easy answer by someone less forgetful than me :D): if Sawyer & Co., are stuck in the 70s, where did he get the taser he used on Sayid? Has he always had a taser on him--say, from the present?--and have we seen it before? That stuck out to me, for some reason.
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