Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Although I'm sure it's fun to do stuff like this, it's also quite crazy, and is (usually) intentionally biased. Do you really think these are equivalent machines? Hint: they are not.

Anytime somebody asks a "Mac or PC" question, people trot out the same old lines. The absolute best advice is to speak with somebody who actually knows about, has current experience with, and uses both Mac and Windows PCs. Otherwise it's just people quoting the same crap that they've read elsewhere.

As for price differences, the key thing to know is that Apple simply does not have a "low end" laptop, and does not play in that segment of the market. So it's easy to find a cheapo Windows laptop and compare it, but you'd be much more informed by a true comparison of similarly priced laptops. Yes, Dell, Toshiba, HP, etc. do actually sell similarly priced machines, with the level of components and sophistication as the Mac laptops. But it's not as much fun to do a true Apples to apples comparison.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Pun intended.:r

You make some great points.
I happen to use a PC laptop for work (HP), I have a desktop PC I still use, and I have my MacBook.
I am not a one side only person at all.
Given I use all three regularly, I am confident when I say I love my Mac any day over a PC.

Best of all.......................................

This message was posted without any fear of viruses and without utilizing any anti virus software.:r:r:r

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Found an article that contained this and I thought it truly sums it up for me.

most PC users use PCs because they have to, while Mac users use Mac because they want to.

That statement truly says it all.

Here is the rest of the article.
Interesting reading, even if one doesn't agree.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/101-und...tter-than-pcs/

Another one.
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=115151

There are similarly plenty of these by PC users but will leave it to the other side to find.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

[quote=Blueface;685717]Found an article that contained this and I thought it truly sums it up for me.

most PC users use PCs because they have to, while Mac users use Mac because they want to.


Agreed. Well put.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Agreed, and owning both, and using both on a daily basis, i could give my pc up, but i wouldn't give my mac up.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I can take a hint...I get that I'm coming across a little heavy handed and biased. I'm just trying to get the point across that just because it has an Apple on it doesn't mean it was made better. If you like the OS fine use it. I'm just saying don't bother to pay 3 times the price for the hardware. The laptops I quoted aren't 100% identical, but they are 95% the same. The only real difference is the CPU and the outer plastic bezels. Use the money you save and buy 7 or 8 boxes of good cigars.

Some people believe that buying a certain name brand is worth paying a little extra. I would say that often I agree. This however is not one of those circumstances. I've taken apart Macs and PCs. I know they buy the same hardware from the same vendors and put them in their laptops. Years ago that wasn't the case. Apple used SCSI hard drives and RISC based CPUs. Both of which were superior to the IDE hard drives and x86 CPUs that PCs were using. However Apple dropped SCSI a long time ago and dropped RISC based CPUs about 3 years ago to adopt Intel x86 based CPUs. Since they have done that there is no real difference between Apple and PC hardware. Hence there is no real justification for them to charge 3 times the price.

I'm not trying to be rude by my repeated posts. I have worked in computers for about 15 years and I'm trying to help shed some light on the subject.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I might not buy a laptop for another year just so this can keep going :r I love it!

Everyone is providing some great info. It is a tough decision either way but then again it isn't like the decision is forever. A few years down the road I can get something else :D

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

mac owns!
it will run as good as it did on day one in five years

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

the mac has an NVIDIA GeForce 9400M which even if integrated is still far superior to the intel graphics media accelerator.

The bottom line and the most important 2 points is that the OP said price was not an issue, and he isn't a fan of windows.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

:r

right....

FYI That's a GeForce 9400 in the Mac versus the Integrated Intel chipset.. and you're comparing an inferior CPU with 1/4 the L2 cache to that of the Mac's and also a reduced clock speed.

Give me a flipping break.

This is not even mentioning the unibody construction compared to that of the flimsy plastic frames of cheaper laptops. I don't get a satisfaction in hearing the lid of my laptop creak under stress as I open it.

You're running out of points. And your comparison to the business world means absolutely nothing to a person using a laptop for personal use. And even if it was transitioned over. Guess what. Install windows Vista or 7 on it and call it a day.

Boils down to personal preference. I will never own a Desktop Mac, but right now I see nothing better on the market than a Macbook. Thus I use a Windows/RHEL PC and a Macbook Pro with OS X/Win 7.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

same as with cigars...cheap cigars are cheap and dissapointing...good cigars are more money and awesome

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

As someone who does run a quote/unquote "hackintosh" I would love to know the method to get OS X running on any off the shelf laptop, such as the $449.99 Toshiba satellite, that gets all of the components working, including the wireless card, audio I/O, etc that a regular end user can do. (besides netbooks)

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I was kinda curious about that myself...

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Did I mention I love my MacBook?
Did I mention I am posting this from my iPhone?
Gotta run. Going to video some stuff with my IPod Nano with video camera. :D

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

disagreed says the party short :P

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Actually you can get identical specs + Blu-Ray for $1099 made by Lenovo (Formely IBM's laptop/desktop division) and save $600.

IdeaPad Y550
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8700 (2.53GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2)
4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz SODIMM Memory (2 Dimms)
nVidia Geforce G 210M graphic card with 512MB memory (your post didn't list video memory)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Bluetooth
15.6" HD WLED with 1.3M integrated Camera
250GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
Blu-ray/DVD-ROM Combo
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: Intel WiFi Link 5100 1x2 (AGN) WLAN
Battery: 6 Cell Lithium-Ion 2.6Ah


OR

You can smoke the Apple's specs this HP for $1424 and still save almost $300

HP DV6T
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB) QUAD CORE
6.0 GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
500GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection (Prevents fall damage)
1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 230M
15.6" diagonal High Definition LED HP Brightview Widescreen Display (1366x768)
Lightscribe Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
Webcam + Fingerprint Reader
Intel Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit


Heck for $300 to $600 you can enjoy a lot of fine cigars while marvelling at the MacBook owners shiny aluminum shell. With all that leftover money you might even be able to buy a laptop bag with some padding incase you drop your "inferior" plastic laptop. Although you may just opt to refrain from dropping it. :ss

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

it's not all about hardware, the guy didn't say he's looking for an insane computer to produce and render movies. He also said price isn't an issue. He also said he doesn't like windows. Sounds to me like he's already made the right choice. Mac ;)

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Sure, but in the end, you can still only dream of really owning a Mac.:D
Sort of like when I use to use condoms. Sure the lambskin costs more. Sure the latex will get job done with plenty of money left over for cigars. However, you just can't beat the feeling of that lambskin.:r (actually, you can. Snip and it is taken care of).

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Don't forget your antivirus subscription and internet "security" ;) At least now you are talking about things that are comparable. I was struggling with comparing a sub-$500 machine to a MacBook Pro.

I wouldn't argue that there is some price premium paid for a difference in "it just works" kind of quality, and the ease of use and tight integration of things like iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, etc.

Certainly a judgement call on the value of that, but again, you are now making a more reasonable comparison for somebody who is genuinely looking for advice. I use both types of machines on a daily basis (they sit side-by-side on my desk), and I would never, ever recommend Windoze over Mac OS.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Wow, this is a direction I never saw this thread taking. Yikes!!

:r

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

:r

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

you can have a great burger for 10 bux (or whatever) at a decent restaurant, or you can have a mcdonalds one for a buck. Should one go for the mcdonalds one just because it's cheaper? I'd personally rather have the much tastier real restaurant burger.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

hang on a second.....


I am really not sure how much blu-ray enters into a laptop discussion. Quite frankly.... How big is the screen?
You do critical watching of movies on a 13-17 inch screen? Wait... I hear the argument that you can use it as a media server to an external display....





Yeah.. if you are that into movies, you already have a dedicated blu-ray player.
You can install a radar detector in an old worn out Geo Metro, but you still really don't need the functionality. ;)

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Wait, while I will agree mostly with this, that depends. I may settle for a middle of the road (price wise) In N Out or 5 Guys. YUMMY!!!:r
Man they are good!!!

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I love the virus argument. Let's explore that one. According to the stats here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...s-sinks-2009-4

Apple's market share gains levelled off at a whopping 7.4%. WOW.

According to the sources quoted here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows

Microsoft owns 91% of the OS market share.



Now lets consider motives.

Q: What is the primary motive for writing viruses and spyware?

A: To cause either chaos (viruses) or to make money (market research statistics forwarded to a central point, or via theft/fraud)

Q: Why would someone go through the trouble of writing code for these complex applications (virus/spyware) for a platform that only affects 7.4% of the market?

A: Good question. Primarily they don't.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Ummm, ok, let's explore:
So the *reason* that Mac users don't have to hassle with viruses, and virus protection is somehow relevant?

Customer: Wow, macs aren't peppered with viruses and malware all the time, and I don't need to buy all that crap to load up the machine! I'll get one of those!

Salesman: No, no, don't do that. Windows has a much larger marketshare, so that excuses the viruses. You'll love running scans all the time, knowing that your machine is a more attractive target! You silly boy!

:r

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

:confused:
I think you are making the point for us Mac users. Don't care if I am only 1% of the market. I am the 1% living carefree.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

:r:r:r

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I don't get to use this very often....





:tpd: :r:r:

While I am at it, while I am not a commodities dealer in Southeast Asia and have no interest in such ventures, I will now attempt to give a crap about the price of rice in China.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

.....and what do you have against tea? I prefer to care about the price of tea in China better.:D

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

And I hope it stays that way.

I'm the geek in my family, and when my kids ask what machine to get I suggest the Mac first because I'd see it less. I can use a windows machine forever without getting virus's or malicious code but that doesn't hold true for my kids and their kids. And who does the unfarging of their machines? I do. I've reformatted more windows based machines than I care to remember. Three years of running OS X and I've done it once, to see how difficult it was. None of us do any business on our machines so I wouldn't even venture in to that part of the argument. But for the design, OS and ease of use I highly recommend a Mac.

For price I suggest a Windows 7 machine. Been running 7 since the end of October on a 4 year old Gateway desktop without issue. Also have a recently purchased Dell 1545 laptop that impresses me because it cost 500 bux and works quite well.

You can make an argument and structure it to suit whatever machine you prefer. Ultimately we are all bias about what we like and will to no end justify and support just how sound our own purchases are. Go to the Apple store and to Best Buy, Staples or whatever you have access to and test drive and then decide.

Doesn't matter what OS you prefer, just as long as it allows you to access The Nut House. Happy Holidays Geeks. :r

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Well said sir. Happy Holidays to you and yours :tu :tu

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option. See how easy that "just works" or how intuitive it is. I will never need to emulate Mac OS X because every app I could ever possible want or need runs on Windows. I'm sure this is true of 99-100% of Windows users. I wonder what percentage of Mac users have to put their techie hat on to figure out how to emulate Windows? From their own admission it sounds like at least half of the Mac users who've been posting in this thread have had to at some point.

This is just one of the pains of using an OS that the world has deemed irrelevent. Remeber the virus argument? To expand that line of thinking, why bother writing your application/game twice only to reach an additional 7% of the market? These kind of things become apparent to the software companies, especially in a recession.

:2

;)

BTW, Merry Christmas! I hope you guys are enjoying this as much as I am.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

In honor of this thread; at next year's Shack Herf I will make sure to wear a T-shirt with an Apple logo on it. Of course it will have a red circle around it with a & slash through it.

:D

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I think it is quite safe for me to say that not only has Apple outlasted the Beta, but it has also grown to an incredible magnitude that was not expected. In their early days, many said they wouldn't last. They incorporated in 1977. It is now 2010. My simple math yields that to be 33 years.
Remember, while I can accept your 7% niche argument as haven't attempted to validate it, that 7% is all Apple for the most part.
The remaining 93% is NOT all Microsoft.

Say what whoever wants to say to support one or the other, the fact remains Apple and Macs are not Beta. They are here for the long haul as they have proven.

BTW, I never bought a Beta but I did have 8-tracks, cassettes, vinyl records and oh, an AMC Gremlin. All long gone too.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

deleted as post duplicated

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Did some reading.
Thought I would share.

The iPhone gets the most press and the iPod sells in the largest quantities, but it's the Macintosh that really drives Apple's growth, says Gene Munster.

In the second installment of a multipart report on Apple's "3 Cylinder Engine," Piper Jaffray's chief Apple (AAPL) analyst looks at the Mac business over the next couple of years and likes what he sees. In particular:

Growth: After Apple introduced the Intel Macs, Mac sales grew 37% in 2007, more than double the industry-wide rate of 15%. Munster is modeling 2.0 to 2.1 million Macs for the March quarter (vs. the Street's 1.95 million). He believes Apple will continue to outpace its competitors with upgraded iMacs and Mac minis in the next 3 months and redesigned MacBooks and MacBook Pros in time for the '08 education season.
Market Share: According to IDC, Apple's worldwide market share grew from 2.4% in 2006 to 2.9% in 2007. (See chart below.) Munster is conservatively modeling global market share to remain flat this year, but he notes that enterprise sales account for 70% of the worldwide market, a segment Apple is not aggressively targeting. In the consumer market, where Apple does compete, he estimates the Mac's share is now 10% worldwide and an impressive 21% in the U.S.
Sales Price: While Apple has gained market share over the past three years, it has also been able to resist the industry trend of decreasing sales prices. In fact, it actually increased its average sales price (ASP) by more than $150 from December '05 to December '07. "The combination of increasing ASPs and rising market share is evidence of a compelling product line," writes Munster.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I use both every day. Actually, I use 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, XP, Vista, and Win 7 almost every day. The only reason I've ever "needed" Windows is for compiling/testing for work.
Macs are easier to use and have less problems. If you ever do "need" windows, VMWare Fusion is very easy to use and is a great product.

As far as running OSX on non-Apple hardware, first of all it is illegal. But even ignoring that, it's not going to give you two finger scrolling ;)

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Beta was a better format, much better picture than VHS. The fact that the world found the format irrelevant doesn't mean it was inferior. Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc. have relatively small market shares. Since the world is made up of mostly followers, the last factor I would use to make a decision about what's best is the opinion of the masses. People often choose low cost over quality, that's why there are $29 dvd players and $1 cigars. I prefer to choose the best combination of quality and cost that fits my budget - I'd rather have less but better stuff than massive quantities of cheap stuff. Cheaper or more widely used simply doesn't equal "better".


I am.:D

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

I just realized, Apple will survive just with me alone.

MacBook
iPod Nano - no video
iPod Nano - video
iPod touch (first generation)
iPhone

Dreaming of moving up to a MacBook Pro 17", once I am done paying my current one on "same as cash" and can find another similar "same as cash" offer.
Waiting on the 4G iPhone to upgrade.
I'd buy a car if they sold one.
Just bought a lawnmower or otherwise would be interested in one from them also.:r

Forgot to mention, the iPod touch is my 2.5 year old grandson's. I figured I would taint his opinion early on to our side. He uses it all the time. Knows his way around all his applications. Awesome tool with flash card games for him to learn. Apple, so easy even a 2.5 year old can use it. I want to hear Bill Gates say that about Microsoft.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Hmm, well I was refraining from commenting here, but I'm bored, so wth? :D

Personally, I prefer Windows. Windows 7 at the current time (as Vista was the current rendition of Windows Me..........complete crap). I've worked with Windows, Linux, Unix, and Novell for over 15 years and still keep coming back to Windows (although there was a brief period when Mandrake was kickin it that I absolutely loved Linux).

I've tried Mac's, hell, even loaded my MSI Wind with Mac OS 10.5 and tried it out for a couple of months. Absolutely hated it. No features were where I thought they'd be, everything seemed to take twice as long to accomplish. This is not a dig on Mac's, it's just the way I perceived it. Most likely this was due to how used to Windows I am and how much I hate having to "tinker" with computers when not at work. For me, "it just works" means using a Windows based device. As for the virus issues, the only Windows computer (that I personally own, not work with) I have any malware protection installed on is the one I torrent with and I've rarely ever had an issue. Of course this leads to all kinds of discussions about browsing habits and such that we could talk about all year.

At the end of the day, try'em both (if you haven't already) and decide which one you like better. That's most likely the one you'll be happy with (at least for the next 4-5 years until you upgrade again :D).

Just my :2

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Year -- Net Sales (Mil USD)
2002 -- 5,247
2003 -- 6,207
2004 -- 8,279
2005 -- 13,931
2006 -- 19,315
2007 -- 24,006
2008 -- 32,479


Irrelevant? Niche market?



Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

You should really look at the Groundbreaking Commodore 64.

Just Sayin'.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Played with some laptops today. Only real way for me to get a true feel is to take it home and use it for a few days but an hour in best buy will have to cut it. To me if it wasn't for most software being written for Windows I don't see why people wouldn't buy an apple (price is another reason). I'm so leaning towards apple now it's pretty much sold.

I'm definitely going to have to talk to a few of you more in private, especially 357 about what to get. I want to make a smart decision.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Betamax was actually preferred over VHS by the broadcast media professionals for many years, as I recall. Purely aside from the conversation, but if you are gonna blow smoke.....

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

The smart decision is to get the computer that works for you and what you want to do. They are not one-size-fits-all. For example, I couldn't imagine having one of those 17 inch "desktop replacement" laptops but other folks wouldn't know what to do on my 13.3 (or my mini 9 for that matter!).

Is there a specific piece of software that you are concerned will not work on/is not available for an Apple?

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

No software concerns that I can foresee.

I'm not really a computer guy. I'm not really up to speed on computer technologies and what's available and what's good. So really I just want to get some help to make an educated decision as this isn't a cheap purchase.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

Understood.

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

your arguments are getting worse an worse IMO.

I'm a university student and have never "needed" windows... I haven't used windows for 6 years. If I ever "needed" I would run bootcamp on my Mac....which like almost every other program they have (iweb, iphoto, etc) couldn't be easier to set up....hell even there back up program (time machine) sets itself up.

And I don't care if only 1% of the market uses Apple... I don't have viruses and love it.

http://www.mediabistro.com/mobilecon..._classroom.png

here is the 1% hard at work (probably on facebook)

Re: Buying a new laptop- Apple?
 

woot :D if you need any advice post here or pm me i'll do my best