Originally Posted by E.J. (Post 1468200)

I disagree.........I REALLY DISAGREE.

Crazy/telling/appropriate? to see Matt Millen break down on SportsCenter today....the gravity of this for Penn State as an institution. This is so far bigger than pointing the finger at one or two douchebags.

Originally Posted by loki (Post 1468226)

you're wrong pete, dead wrong. it's far less about us then it is about the kids who were raped, not even close, orders of magnitude less. everyone reread that before someone goes off half cocked. but this does impact everyone who went to, graduated or just liked penn state. I'm gutted over this, I'm gutted that the institution that I spent years cheering for and attending would allow this **** to happen. this has changed everything about how I looked at something I considered myself a member of family of. it hurts me personally that this occurred and how it was handled.

Originally Posted by massphatness (Post 1468271)

I rarely disagree with you, Scott, but in this case I do.

Paterno did the legal thing. But he failed to do the moral thing.

Originally Posted by massphatness (Post 1468271)

I rarely disagree with you, Scott, but in this case I do.

Paterno did the legal thing. But he failed to do the moral thing.

Originally Posted by replicant_argent (Post 1468273)

I don't care where this happened. I don't care about the team. I will not feel somehow let down because a certain institution will be impacted. The rah-rah bullsh!t mentality is a waste of time. This is simply about the good old boy protectionism and perversion of individuals. If this happened at 3M you wouldn't have people wringing their hands about the "integrity of the company" and the "stellar performance of it's divisions" by the average Joe. While having passion for your particular sports teams is certainly something many people enjoy, I think that perhaps if this situation gets you all bent out of shape regarding the institution (other than feeling that those people that didn't do the right and moral thing made the school a lesser place, and wanting that culture to occur at a higher standard) perhaps your priorities aren't what I would perceive to be in the same hierarchy as my own.
Yes, if this business that is Penn State has people working for it who cultivate a view of themselves as being apart or above the law, it needs to change. Sports are a business for the Universities, with some other added benefits. Huge egos, in a small subculture of our society that is rewarded and stroked by millions and millions of people. Many of them "play by their own rules" which, in most cases, is fairly harmless. In some instances like this one it has evolved into a disgusting hydra of a shameful and heartbreaking situation.
I feel for the victims of this. Those guilty of the perversion/shielding/deflecting/lying/not acting in the proper manner or not following through should get the justice they deserve.
Does that mean I will get out the crying towel for the institution and how it's reputation is stained, damaged, etc?

No. Simple priorities. It is about the victims, and the guilty. I will not be anguished over a flawed institution (business). I would hope they take every step necessary to repair the culture that allowed this to happen. That I can see is germane to this discussion.

edit:
Regarding Joe Pa, in my world, if presented with something like this, so very, very wrong, I do not think I could simply "report it" and then not make sure it was handled. The buck stopped, for the most part with him. Half measures and deflections and putting your head in the sand after you "did what was required" of you reminds me of a certain ongoing problem in another, very old monstrous institution. With the same type of problem.

Originally Posted by loki (Post 1468301)

remember that thing i said about going off half cocked? you either didn't read what I wrote or chose to ignore it

Originally Posted by replicant_argent (Post 1468310)

I did. It is not about the fans or the alumni. You and I will have to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1468286)

That's what I'm missing. What was the moral thing to do? Beat his @$$ (which is what I might have done if I were him)? He told his superiors what was going on, then he was told by his superiors that they had taken care of the issue/cleared his name.

Originally Posted by shilala (Post 1468259)

I've been reading about this very closely since the moment the story broke.
Boiled down to brass tacks, what I've learned so far is that Joe had no knowledge of any specific anything (at least up until a point). The grad student fed JoePa a small piece of info on which he acted immediately. It was then handled improperly by the school officials for years.

This is another typical media lynching, and of course it needs to fall on JoePa's head because he's the face of Penn State.
It's wrong and it's disgusting.

This is a man who has devoted his life to excellence, training men to be great men, donating almost all the money he has ever made back to the college so that even more men could become greater men.
And for all this selflessness all these years, he's the bad guy for not stopping something he had no knowledge or power over? He should have stopped taking care of all the hundreds of people he was devoted to caring for, because he should have magically known everything that went on? He should have had full rein over the entire college's policy because he's a football coach?

It doesn't make even one single ounce of sense that he would have ignored this, beit specifically or otherwise. He's retiring over the sheer guilt he's feeling that it could have happened in a place that he regarded so highly and worked so hard to make exceptional. He wishes he'd have known, wishes he could have done something, wishes he could have saved these boys, and is tortured that it happened. He's made statements directly to that effect. These are statements from the one man in high profile athletics who has never been caught in a lie, never been indicted, never been called on the carpet for cheating, a truly decent man.
And he's the bad guy?

There could not have been a single person in that school from janitor to student to faculty to the president that didn't know about this when that grad student saw that ten year old boy being raped in the shower. Or when the janitor witnessed another incident. Or when the Physical Plant employee witnessed another incident.
Everyone had to believe it was being handled and handled correctly. In hindsight, of course he could have done more. So could every single one of the people who ever set foot on that campus for all those years this was going on.

Read the Grand Jury indictment. The Department of Child Welfare knew what was going on in 1998 and they did nothing.
Dozens of people who knew of this first hand did everything they could and school officials lied and hid and did nothing.
Detectives were dispatched and hidden microphone converstaions took place and they did nothing.

The one man who stands out as a decent human being who has served God and his fellow man for his entire life is being blamed and ruined over this, and it's a sick injustice.
Read his statements. His prayers are with all these families. He'll do everything he can to help them, because that's who he is. To crucify him for not doing more is ridiculous, patently unfair, and blatently obvious to anyone who is willing to take five minutes to read, rather than to listen to the dogsh1t fed them by the media.

If there's a "right" side in this sickening, painful mess, it's to pray for these young men and their families who now have to relive this horror all over again. To abandon and assail a man like JoePa and try to somehow make it his fault is disgusting.
I'd far rather people blame me. I'm more deserving. I've done tons of awful things in my life and I probably deserve to be blamed for something I'm not guilty of.

Originally Posted by massphatness (Post 1468271)

I rarely disagree with you, Scott, but in this case I do.

Paterno did the legal thing. But he failed to do the moral thing.

Originally Posted by AD720 (Post 1468341)

But vin, at that point would it just be hearsay? "I heard from somebody that X happened"?

If you read the indictment, which I'd only recommend to those with strong stomachs, the police, CPS, et all had known about this guy for a bit.

I still fail to see how Joe Pa retiring a disgrace is the next step.

Originally Posted by massphatness (Post 1468366)

I guess the question I would need to ask myself is if it had happened to my kid, would I be ok that Paterno took no other action than informing his superior?

My answer would be no, I would most definitely not be ok.


To be clear, Paterno is far from the only one who has culpability here, but he was in a position to stop this guy and didn't even though he followed the letter of the law.

And Scott, Joe Paterno IS Penn State -- his hands are never tied.

Originally Posted by massphatness (Post 1468333)

In my mind, the moral thing to do would have been to report the information to law enforcement. I'm pretty sure the parents of the rape victims would agree on this point.

Originally Posted by Resipsa (Post 1468370)

"It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a single act to destroy it."

Perhaps words to remember and live by.

JoePa doesn't get a pass because of all of the other things he did. Sorry.

Originally Posted by AD720 (Post 1468377)

That is my point! What was the single act? No one knows what he was told was happening. No one here at least or in the media. It's all just conjecture. The Police already knew about this guy. I just don't get the vilification.