Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...impressive.jpg

hell yeah!!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

i still say sending a sealed box full of beetles is the answer, dude goes to open the box for a quick smell and bang that critters latch onto his face :D

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

This ain't a sticky yet?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

great post and this is almost exactly my process as well!

i'm gonna give silverfox a bump... ;)

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Why thank you kind sir

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

So 3-4 hours in my mailbox should do today. LOL!

Great Post!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Thanks for the info. Shawn. This would make a great sticky.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Got a PM on this yesterday thought I would bump it up again

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I have stored a few thousand NC cigars over the years, many with several years of storage on them and have never found evidence of a beetle. Is this mainly a problem with storing older CC's or have I just been lucky?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

It occurs in CC and NC alike, have a look at the pic of the padrons in the first post of this thread

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I have seen more beetles in Padron's (1926 and 1964 boxes too be specific) than any other cigar brand.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

got a special box that arrived today heading to the freezer with a stop in the fridge. Great post, thanks!!!!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

So does one have to wrap in plastic before putting boxes in the reefer or can one just put the boxes in by themselves? Also, now that I found a few with holes do I just wipe out my vino with distilled H2O or something else?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Yes, seal the box's before you freeze.. About the vino, I heard to wipe the inside of humidors with Cognac, kills the larvae and won't hurt your cigars.. Just let it air out before stocking it back up...

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Seems to be a bunch of beetles popping up so I thought I would bump this back up

CLICK HERE TO GO TO FIRST POST

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Let's get this thread stickied!!!!

Awesome thread Fox.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

In case this one gets stickied, here is the Fahrenheit conversion of the white paper on cigarette beetle mortality I posted in another thread on this topic.

--------
Keep in mind that most home freezers at their lowest setting only go down to about 17 degrees F. As long as the larval stage has not been acclimated to 60 degrees for several months before freezing occurs, 4 days in a home freezer should result in 100% mortality.

Cigarette Beetle Mortality White Paper Chart

Stage/Temperature (F)/100% Mortalitiy (hours)
Egg............-4...................1
..................5...................4
..................14.................12
..................23.................48
..................32................240
..................41................336

Larval .........-4.................1
..................5..................3
.................14.................12
.................23.................96
.................32.................288
.................41.................336

Acclimated larval (59 degrees for 1-3 months)
.................-4.................1
..................5..................6
.................14.................24
.................23.................504
.................32.................1176
.................41.................1680

Pupal.........-4..................1
.................5...................2
.................14.................4
.................23.................48
.................32.................288
.................41.................840

Adult..........-4.................1
.................5...................2
.................14.................2
.................23.................72
.................32.................288
.................41.................840
__________________

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I agree....it's great info

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Drat's last post looks similar to the Cigar Magazine 2008 Summer issue. In my mind it quotes the formost indepth study done on beetles. There are some differences .. Use the acclimated larval chart to be safe. Japan Tobacco's study shows a freezer at 32 degrees takes nearly 2 months to kill 100% of the beetles (all stages) They brought in infected bales and put them in freezers at various temps. Then got the old microscope out... it also agrees with Drats 100% kill at -4 F

Pick up the Cigar magazine with Vince Curatola on the cover.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Got the first batch in the fridge and in 12 hours they go to the deep freeze for a nice long nap.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Thanks for making this a sticky!

Congrats Hairball.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

So freezing in tubes or take them out first?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Might have been posted but here's a little tidbit of info...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmXH...layer_embedded

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

good post, ive never seen that video before

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Boxes, Tubes, Coffins, Cabs I leave em in what they came in. I have frozen everything from Glass and Aluminum Tubes to Coffins and Cabs.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

thanks SilverFox!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I gotta do this from now on no matter what!!!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Nice thread, some decent research, but hardly scientific. This is what I would call a research based guess.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I am unsure what you mean by a research based guess?

Care to clarify

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

This has hardly considered all of the variables with a scientific and open mind. No experiments were done in succession to address all of our concerns. Only one experiment is cited relating to only a specific portion of the variables involved. Thus, this is neither scientific experimentation, nor complete scientific research. It is instead a guess with some light research.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

What variables would those be?

What concerns are you alluding too?

Again I am unsure as to the variables that you are referring too but I think that the main concern is the mortality/temperature information that has been extensively experimented.

I would however disagree that this is a guess, it is rather an application of the findings of some very extensive research, and so far the results have been flawless in my circumstances, there was no intent to provide absolute irrefutable process to anyone but rather a tried and true process that has been tested by many and shown to be effective. I have first hand experience in cigar beetles and the damage that they can cause and have tried to provide my fellow cigar smokers with the benefit of my research and the process used. But we are all entitled to our opinions and you have expressed yours, my apologies if you find this information to be ill advised and poorly thought out. I would be greatly appreciative if you have better information to assist in the irradication of beetle infestations in my cigars, until then I will rely on the process I have indicated as it has proven to be effective (at least in my circumstances)

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

The other concerns are how the freezing processes affect the cigars, including flavor, significant subsets of flavor, during smoking construction, wrapper oil levels, persistent long term storage durability, etc. If all we cared about was killing beetles, we could just throw them in the freezer naked and call it good. Because you don't do this, obviously you consider that this might have some adverse affects on the cigar. However, you haven't any scientific information about these affects, and how many process variables would impact things that are important to a cigar smoker.

The variables I would point out are: mil of plastic used to contain cigars, sealing method of plastic container, RH of cigar environment when entered into container, swell/shrink of cigar cross-sectional area, etc etc.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

It is unrealistic to expect that someone would say a cigar tasted like it was frozen, as I wouldn't expect that many cigar smokers have participated in scientific experiments to compare the flavor of two otherwise comparable cigars. However, you could pretty easily illicit feedback about how the cigar tasted as compared with other cigars that person has smoked, but without more stringent scientific controls, this would be little more than a survey.

This is why I say we are missing some of the science here. You present some scientific, research based information, but you also interject your opinion without so much as a qualification. Have you ever frozen half a box and not the other half and traded off smokes between the two sets? It is hardly the kind of thing that I would gloss over in a scientific analysis.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Now I may be wrong, but no where has Shawn stated that this was based on scientific research, just the science behind it as posted by others. If you want scientific research data, maybe someone could do a year long study on the variables, then post results. The science I see behind his posts are derived from the cycle of eggs to full hatch killing, someone must have done this part, other wise it would not have been posted as an article in a magazine.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I guess some of the information you have just posted is more like it. On the other hand, I hate it when I see these kinds of threads without the counterpoint. No offense to you or anyone else that posts this kind of thread, but I think it is good to have some counterpoints to keep things objective.

I know someone will probably come behind me and say that I am just being a ####, but I think it is a valid proposition.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Awesome information in this thread!!! Thanks guys.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Do you have any info that shows how long a beetle (larva or other stage) can remain dormant?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I don't know if the correct place to post, but here it goes. I think I may have beetles, I have smoked a couple of sticks lately that were very soft, the ashes dropped quicker than normal, and I have noticed what look like little tunnels in the ashes or burned part of cigar. The humidors are kept around 68% rh. The temp stays around 77 or 78, it's too expenseve to cool the house any cooler. Could these be bugs, or is it a hummidity problem?
Thanks for any help and advice.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Take cigars and tap the foot over white paper, if anything comes out looking like very fine black pepper, you have beetles.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Freezer bags.

Luxury or necessity?

Plz advise.

Thanks.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Thanks, going to try right now, hope it's not bad news.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

After reading this and looking at the pictures my cigars ended up in the fridge to chill, then on to the freezer.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Time for more anecdotal evidence to take or leave at your discretion.

When I lived in the States I had proper climate control in the house. Here in London that is an exceedingly difficult task. I never had a beetle outbreak in the States. Here it is an annual thing even with having wine coolerdors now.

Mr. Italy says what I've heard in Italy and Spain but I've had boxes from both countries that have had beetles in them. FWIW I have no doubt they take precautions but I doubt the efficacy of them.

I now freeze everything. I've still run into the occasional problem but I now also isolate and quarantine everything so I can nip it in the bud. I honestly don't know if it's just from being over here and buying at shops that has caused the problem or just bad luck. I think the wine coolerdors rules out excessive temps but I've still come across them. The past two and a half years has been the most frustrating in my smoking life.

My two pence: If you're buying anywhere in Europe then freeze. And watch them like a hawk.

Incidentally I have yet to tell a difference between one frozen and properly restored and one fresh - or one that I've had from the States that never saw a freezer.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

great information i may start freezing my sticks as well

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Ok guys,

This thread has scared the crap out of me.....

What would anyone guess is the percentage of infected cigars (pull a number out of you A$$).....

Are all the large manufacturers freezing their stock before they ship?

Right after I read it, I went and checked all of my sticks....... I had plans on buying some very expensive boxes and store them unopened..... but now, I guess I need to open them and check then from time to time even if I freeze them first..:(

I would like to hear from some of the other Florida guys in regards to the problems (if any) that they have had....

Cheers
Mark

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Would it be safe to assume that if I freeze 100% of everything that is put into my standard non-cooled humidor cabinet, that my everyday storage temperature would not be nearly as big of a concern? I also live in Florida and do not want to spend the $$ to keep the house at 70 Degrees all day. The temperature while I'm at work will raise to about 77-78 during the day.