Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brettanomyces

In general terms, its a spoilage bacteria (although actually a yeast). Like I said somewhere above, if you've ever been to a horse stable you know what it smells like. And once it blooms in a bottle, it takes over all other flavors leaving only the flavor of brett to "enjoy".

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Somebody earlier already mentioned this but I have decided to start buying this by the case. At ~$9 a bottle before the case discount I just don't see how you can go wrong. I'm really enjoying drinking this.

http://www.winepros.org/images/ps-bogle.jpg

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I have yet to have a "bad" bottle of anything Bogle. Solid lineup, year in and year out. That's a great price for the wine, it is more expensive here in CA. But I also found a good number of wines selling for less in FL than I see them here, can't figure this one out.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Anything J. Lohr.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Somehow that just doesn't quite make sense does it?
:)

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

For under $20, Joseph Drouhin has several to choose from that are pretty good for the money. The Symington family also have a few that I consider steals for the money.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Anyone into white wine, try a bottle of Bonny Doon Pacific Reisling, superb match for spicy food IMO. The wine usually sells for roughly $11-12 here in CA, but I've seen it at $9 in FL shops. Goes great with sushi as well.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Another one, brought to my attention by relatives in Illinois. I'll be looking for this to try out this weekend.

Simonassi Malbec Mendoza 2007

Sam's Wine & Liquor Score: 90 - Impressive aromas of blackberry and plums lead the way. Pours a clear, deep purplish red. Big and rich with a nice silky tannic finish. This jammy yet fresh, and very quaffable. Perfect for many cuisines, including Mexican, Spanish, Indian and Italian.

$12.99 per bottle!

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Brett! That's what causes that flavor. I hate it. I must have a low threshold for it. It makes wines taste dirty to me. If there are other great qualities to the wine I can overlook it, but it is only a negative, IMHO.

I'm going to Paso Robles for the weekend and I'll be picking up some cases of wine from EOS vineyards called Lost Angel, thier "Mischievous" and Petite Syrah. I am in their club so they are $12 a bottle. I'll be visiting a lot of other wineries while I'm there.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Had a bottle of this last weekend. Spectacular. The guy at one of my local shops recommended another Petite Syrah and it was horrible. I threw it out. Popped this one after and it was like a breath of fresh air.

Also had a bottle of Bogle's Phantom on Wednesday. Awesome blend of Petite Syrah, Zinfandel and just a touch of Mourvedre. Delicious, and a steal at about $17. I think Bogle had just joined the top of my CA winery list these days, right along side Michael David. Excellent wines at very good prices.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Most Petite producers kill the wine by using way too much oak when aging. As is, Petite is one of the most tannic grapes around (small berries with think skins), have no idea why add oak tannins on top of skin tannins that are already big.

What's Michael David? Not sure I've seen that one anywhere.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

OK, found them (Michael David). I know them by their actual wine labels, 7 Deadly Zins and the Earthquake Petite Sirah. The Petite is one of the best made in CA, IMO, and although in the $30 range (at least here) is a great bottle for the price. The Zin is very good as well.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Will have to look up the Earthquake and give that a shot. Just finished off a bottle of their Petite Petit which has 15% Petite Verdot blended in with the Syrah. Really enjoyed that as well, my wife loves it. $20 + 1, so sorry if it doesn't fit the thread.

http://prime.premiergroup.net/store/...epetit_750.gif

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Casillero Del Diablo is a great bottle of wine that I have been able to pick up for about 10 bucks in MI

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

http://winelibrary.com/images/38939.jpg

I've had this as cheap as 7.99 on sale (which is insane, I'd buy 10 cases at that price now), but for 12 bucks and under this is a great Chianti. One of the few wines I really like that I can't get here anymore and have to order from NJ. Clean flavors, well made, I've had the 04, 05 and 06 and all are nicely done.

A Spanish wine that is worth looking for is the Mas de Bazan Crianza. Had a bottle at Rioz Brazilian steakhouse on the weekend and was very impressed for a bottle running 26 bucks in the restaurant. I expect you'd pay 9-12 in stores, although it is hard to find online at a place that will ship to VA. Don't know why but I've only seen the 00 and 04 online. We had the 00 .. could still go a few more years.

http://www.randolphwinecellars.com/i.../100/18101.jpg

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Oh, and I HATE Brett except in lambic beers. Had a Crozes Hermitage recently that was absolutely undrinkable due to Brett. A tiny bit I can deal with .. but this was nasty.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Parker most likely scored it high :-))

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I just got back from Paso Robles and scored a big win. There is a small family winery and vineyard near San Miguel called Rainbow's End. They make wines in a style I really enjoy. Rich, fruity, high alcohol from hot grown grapes. Their wines are usually $20 a bottle. They are closing up the winery so all the cases of everything they have are $60 a case. I got a merlot, a port, a cab sauv, a petite syrah and something else I can't remember now. $5 a bottle. They will be closed in a month. Sometimes you just hit it.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I am not much of a white wine drinker, although I do indulge now and then. My friends have sent me a recommendation on the following, advising that it is an exception wine.

2007 Kendall-Jackson "Vintners Reserve"
California Chardonnay

"Thanks to Jess Jackson's extraordinary agricultural empire of top-notch vineyards sprinkled throughout the state of California, the 2007 Vintner's Reserve Chardonnay is entirely made from estate fruit. It is 100% barrel-fermented, and aged five months with 100%malolactic, an incredible fact considering the volume produced. This cuvee seems to get better with each vintage as winemaker Randy Ullom is a virtuoso at producing such high quantity / high quality wine. Purchasers should be sure they are buying it from a retailer who stores it properly as this is a serious Chardonnay. Notes of melons, honeysuckle, and lemon oil along with remarkable flavor and texture are found in this wine, which can be purchased for under $15 a bottle. It is best consumed during the first 1-2 years of life."

~ Robert Parker, Wine Advocate, 90 Points

Retail Price: $13.99 a 750 ml bottle. It is often found for $10.95

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Here is another great buy according to a friend who pasted this on to me.

Delas Freres "Saint-Esprit" Cotes-du-Rhone 2007

Wine Advocate: 90 Points - The amazing 2007 Cotes du Rhone St.-Esprit (75% Syrah and 25% Grenache) reveals a northern Rhone orientation, but it is loaded with spice and black fruits, and displays a beautiful opulent texture as well as a gorgeous finish with impressive purity.

Price: $9.99/$10.99 at most retail outlets!

Unfortunately, I could not find a bottle of the Chardonnay I posted about just above. Has anyone tried it?

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Its a supermarket/drug store wine here in CA (I am serious).

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

There is nothing wrong with that! This is an under $20 bottle of wine thread.

Have you tried it?

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Picked up a bottle of this two weeks ago and opened it last night. Not bad. Will be having another tonight.

Glad I found this thread.

I'll have to add Dynamite Merlot 2005. Very, very nice.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I like Chard on a dry and crisp side, this one has sugar in it.

If you want a real bargain without a point score attached, try a bottle of Toasted Head Chard, beats the ones you posted about, at least in my book. Should be $10-14 per bottle and widely available.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Not a fan of the oaky-malolactic style chards such as toasted head.

In fact, I hate them with a deep and burning passion.

I don't drink whites much, but the last Chard that I liked was the Hogue unoaked I bought at their tasting room in Washington a few months back. It was a bit under 20 bucks if I remember right.

Had the Falchini Chianti Colli Senesi Colombaia 2006 recently ... side by side the Farnetello, I prefered the Falchini, which cost a buck or two more per bottle.

Oh, and not a fan of the Mark West Pinot Noir 2007. Not terrible but huge snore factor.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

anybody who posts here a fan of Wine Library TV with gary? This guy gives the best reviews on wines:2 heres a link http://tv.winelibrary.com/

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

At the price discussed, under $20, you won't get much in the line of dry and non-malo. Plus, its the style being discussed here, so I only obliged and between the KJ and Toasted Head I will take the latter, for sure. Sold who knows cases of it in my days in wine retail.

2 years ago I was at an Chivago offline with a bunch of wine geeks and someone brought a Magnum of Chablis that is no longer imported here, sadly so. The bottle had about 8 years on it already. I was lucky enough to be sitting next to the guy who brought it and while the rest of the crowd was concentrating on 5 incredible Champagnes (the likes of Salon, vintage Deutz, vintage Billecart-Salmon and others, which I also partook of), he and I pretty much finished that Magnum of Chablis before moving on to other stuff. Incredibly enough, the bottle was not expensive, roughly $80 (for a Magnum) and I was told there is a chance it will be brought in again by another importer.

I would recommend a few St. Verant to the guys here, but I see their taste preference is not there. But these wines are tasty and affordable, although not oaky and are crisp.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I like Morgante Nero d'Avola IGT Sicilia :)

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Know him well, he stayed at my house 3 years ago on one of his trips to CA. Nice dude. I think there are no more shows being taped?

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Hes been taping all last week and now monday and tuesday this week. He seems like a down to earth guy. Does he smoke cigars?

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I like my Chards buttery, toasty and smooth but I have had some good crisp, dry ones too. Too much oak seems to get in the way of the flavor of a lot of wines to me. I wish I knew what made a wine taste the way I like it when I find one and then be able to reliably translate that to other wines.
They seem so hit and miss to me. Label, year, region, winemaker, nothing seems to be a total indicator of what you are going to get.
What really pisses me off is when one year a particular wine is great and the next year it is a failure but the winery tries to pass it off for the same price anyway. I won't name names but this tells me something about the winery. I know one winery that will open the bottles and reblend this kind of stuff into a cheap table wine if it doesn't sell.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Doesn't smoke at all. He told me in an email just 2 weeks ago he is done with the TV stuff since he is too busy with speeches and presentations. But its all good if he is back to taping (I think he emailed me on the way back from India).

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Every vintage is different, as you pointed out. Best wineries out there come as close to prior vintages as it gets, others don't. Champagne and Cognac houses actually depend on this and have highly paid people who assemble the final blends so that they are almost identical from release to release to keep the "house style".

Main reason I keep telling people that cigars are pretty similar and what one smoked from a box made 3 years ago may be different than from a box made this year no matter how you cut it. Consistency year to year is the hallmark of great producers. The process is not that much dissimilar when one dissects it, only one works with grapes and another with tobacco leaves.

Try that Toasted Head, its all over the place in Bay Area. I think you'll like it.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Yuck.

That tastes like the over-oaked cheapo Ca. Chard's... Ch. St. Michelle is better for similar price, as is Simi. I prefer Chablis or Meursault to Ca. Chard's.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Moses,

Like I said, I'll take a good Chablis any time. But look at all the recommendations here, most people LOVE oaky chards and I am not here to judge anyone. Rombaur made his money and still does via his Chard, oak and RS in full force, but try selling something else in a CA wine shop to a customer, they won't even try anything else.

There is whole bunch of CA Chards that drink like better Burgs, but almost nothing makes it out of the state, sadly. Our supermarkets sometimes have much better selection of great CA wines than most of the high end shops on the Right Coast. Thank the 3 Tier distribution system for that.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Here is another one to consider and it's a Pinot Noir, my personal favorite style of wine!

2007 Monte degli Angeli Pinot Noir

"A dark and brooding nose. On the palate confited blueberries and blackberries, all framed by more than a hint of baking spice. With time an earth note emerges, giving the wine a surprising complexity. Densely flavored--yet surprisingly lifted. A wondrously well-crafted wine that belies its modest site--or not so modest. After all, this is from the Piedmont--amongst the most hallowed grounds in all the Wine World. I'd call this a connoisseur's wine--but at this price point I'm happy that many will enjoy this. A wine that revels in power and complexity."

91 points, Jason Palma
Manager, Fine Wines; Sam's Wines and Spirits

Price: $9.99 per 750ml bottle!

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Arghhh....

Read the note again. Dark and brooding nose? In Pinot Noir? Wow, a first for me. Any mention of BLUE in a tasting note for Pinot Noir is a death knell for the wine and anyone looking for Pinot Noir FLAVOR in this wine will be deeply disappointed.

Recently, SF Chronicle had 3 local sommeliers assemble a week's worth of wines, 7 bottles, as their choices for a person on the street. The kicker was that each had only $150 to spend on the entire lot. All 3 came up with a nice list, whites and reds, IIRC even one Rose, but not one of them had a bottle of Pinot on their list (they all love it and drink it). When asked, all replied that anyone looking for decent (not even good) Pinot at $20 won't find one. Pretty true when one considers that last year, for the first time ever, average price per ton of Pinot Noir grapes exceeded even that of Cabernet Sauvignon.

What I am saying, buy the wine if you want WINE, simply a red wine, but in no way fool yourself you're buying PINOT NOIR. A whole bunch of French producers are now investigated for selling non Pinot Noir wines as such. I suspect this is another case, albeit from Italy now.

Piedmont is Sangiovese country, through and through, save for some Cabernet, merlot and maybe Syrah to produce the so called Super Tuscans. Anyone growing fruit there can easily make more than $10 wine simply by stating the region's name on the bottle, why would anyone forgo that and produce Pinot Noir? And make less? This is highly suspect to me and Sam's should know better.

Buy the aforementioned Bogle at that same price, I am sure you'll enjoy it much more. And won't have to guess what's really in that bottle.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Three reasonable Pinot Picks for under $20, that taste like pinot should are:

St. Michael-Eppan Pinot Nero Riserva

Louis Jadot Bourgone Village

Sipp Mack Pinot Noir

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I have a lot of Pinot and I think the cheapest I have was $16 on sale 20% off. I would be suspicious of "dark and brooding" too and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn. WTH does that mean as nose anyway. It's in a bad mood and thinking about doing something really wicked and smells like it?
Still, if you taste it and like it....who cares.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Moses,

Its in the eye of the beholder, right? I've yet to find a Burg, at less than $100+ per bottle, that talks to me, let alone one for $20 or less (for any Pinot). A lot of them have great nose, but no palate and a lot of them have no finish, even at higher price points. We could argue endlessly about pros and cons, but to my palate there is a clear difference. And lately, it is getting harder and harder to tell Burgs from well made CA Pinots, at least on the high end of both. Even the great Parker (sarcasm here), in a double blind tasting he set up a few years ago here in Napa, could not tell them apart, same goes for about 100 wine geeks and industry pros who paid to attend. The lines are way more blurred these days than anyone wants to admit to (and the point of that tasting).

There used to be some decent NZ Pinots that came close to $20, but even they are over that number lately and are mostly in the $40 range. There are just a few CA made Pinots that are in the $20 range that are worth drinking , but they all are available winery direct only and disappear the day after release (doh!).

Like I said, buy it for the WINE, not for PINOT NOIR you may be seeking, its not there.

A couple of years ago, we had a dinner at our house and a couple of guests, who thought they are "plugged into" great Pinot Noir by their local Whole Foods wine guy, proudly plopped a bottle they brought with them on the counter (Sidawys hooplawas still in full swing). Yep, Burg, mid $20s. Highly touted by the sales clerk. I didn't say anything, simply pulled out some stems, we poured and simply carried on a conversation, cheese and crackers to help out, awaiting the rest of the crowd to arrive. I then popped a bottle of CA Pinot open and poured, their eyes popped the second they stuck their noses in the glass, then they tasted and you could see their minds were now racing at full speed. Yep, a CA made Pinot Noir, in the $40+ range. Yes, I know, more than the wine they brought, but the difference was worth every penny according to them. But after that eye opening experience, they never bought a bottle of Burgundy again.

My tasting group was doing a Pinot tasting recently, someone snuck in a bottle of Burg, blind and all. Yep, no one took it for anything but a (badly made) CA Pinot, way overripe fruit, flabby and way too much oak for the fruit, all combined to muddle the nose and flavor. OK, bad year in Burgundy (2003) and all, but still, a good producer should make something decent anyway, at least enjoyable, which this was not. A $50 bottle. And this is not a lone example.

I am not saying that anyone in this thread should start buying expensive wines, simply that I find it difficult (and actually impossible) to recommend any Pinot Noir in the price range discussed, whether imported or domestic if someone is looking for PINOT NOIR and not just a bottle label that says it is. And when I see tasting notes and scores such as the one from Sam's, it makes me cringe, they simply scream "You've been warned, buy something else!"

I've had some really good German Pinot, in the $40+ range. NZ as well. But I have yet to have a Pinot made in Italy or Oz that convinced me to buy it, price independent. Burgs? I am still split on them and what I like are all in the $150-200+ range, way out of my league.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I'm not sure anyone asked you to recommend a Pinot Noir for under $20. If they did, and I missed it, I apologize. From what I can tell, this thread is meant to discuss what folks enjoy for under $20.

If it is difficult or impossible for you to make a suggestion, it is o.k. not to post in this thread. Or better yet, start another thread to discuss higher end wines. You obviously have some knowledge and experience of wine that most here don't.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Know any good wines under $20, Peter?
I have to admit that the Lost Angel Petit Syrah I mentioned before didn't taste like a Petit Syrah. It was a very good wine for $12 though. More "bright and cheerful". :D

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Quite a few, actually.

I don't think anyone here is expecting stellar wines for under $20. Just something that can be appreciated and enjoyed.

One of my personal favorites (more to come later) is a Pepperwood Grove Old Vine Zinfandel for around $8 at BevMo. Does it compare to the higher end California Zins in the $20-$40 price range? Of course not. But a delicious wine nonetheless.

:2

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Their pinot rocks for $7, too. It's no Kosta Browne, but for a $7 bottle of wine, it's outstanding.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

And you'd be right, of course. Nice wine to go with a fresh off the grill burger.

Just curious what attracted you to try the wine in the first place? The label that says "Old Vine"? Its not, I can assure you of that, its just a marketing ploy since there is no legal definition of the term and no ATF rules that say when one could use it. Or price? Bogle makes a much better wine for not much more (without confusing consumers with marketing tricks). Same for their Pinot Noir wine, was it the price that attacted you? Because I know of no wine geek who would reach for a bottle of PG Pinot if they want to drink PINOT.

Try a bottle of DeLoach California Pinot Noir, should be roughly $10-12 in your parts, let me know what you think. IMO, a much better wine than Pepperwood Grove (and I am not knocking PG, its OK for what it is).

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Wow, a Kosta Browne reference. How did you get your hands on one?

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I first bought the PG because of the price point. I continue to buy it for what it is. Like cigars, sometimes I want a wine that I don't have to think and analyze to enjoy. I also make no claims as to the veracity of the labeling. What I do know is that I enjoy what I am drinking. And for what the participants and lurkers in this thread are looking for, I think it is a decent choice. I will certainly try the Bogle.

I have not seen nor tried the PG Pinot. I believe James (croatan) posted earlier about it. I am not a big fan of Pinots in general but am always willing to try (almost) any wine. I am familiar with DeLoach and will give their Pinot Noir a try.

My red wine preferences are primarily California Cabs, Australian Shiraz, Italian Chianti, and Spanish Tempranillo. Lately, Tempranillos is what I've been after.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I had never tasted a Tempranillo until I was in Paso Robles a couple of weekends ago and two of the places I tasted at were offering some up. I ended up with bottles from both of them. Can't remember where now.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

Go to Spanish Table in Berkeley, Kevin has a great selection of Spanish wines (and Portos as well), if you like Paso Robles versons, then I am sure you'll love the real deal, so to speak.

Re: The Under $20 A Bottle Wine Thread:
 

I agree, these are very nice, as are many offerings from Santa Barbara Vineyards, Sterling Vineyards, Fess Parker Vineyards, Bogle Vineyards and Santa Rita Vineyards, which all offer at least one or two Pinot Noir bottlings every year that usually sell for $20 or less.