Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

The only problem with this ring gauge issue is that it doesn't seem to be limited to one brand or a few brands, but is happening all across the board with new releases and even CCs.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Cigars are a market-driven commodity. (For other statements of the obvious, please check out my blog: Don't_You_Know_Who_I_Think_I_Am.com :D) Obviously, these larger RG sticks are in high demand. What depresses me is fewer and fewer new offerings of smaller RG smokes as well as the discontinuation of a lot short & skinnies. Moe was recently in NYC hob-nobbing with an owner from an LCDH in Germany, and the guy was saying something like 90%+ of his sales were robusto-sized sticks. NINETY PERCENT! That's not fly by night ...

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/41/8...beenjudged.jpg

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

No. Nobody was trying to lump anyone into this group or that. I was just commenting on a trend I've noticed (from my point of view somewhat disappointing) that manufacturers are not releasing many small ring gauge cigars anymore with their new brands and that even CCs (which come from a very long tradition) are showing signs of this trend. I was simply seeking an answer as to why, which went beyond, "that's what the people want." I guess the second question was, why do people want to smoke large RG cigars? If you read through the thread, I think there are a few good answers to both questions. :2

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I was told by an Altadis rep that if you looked at cigar manufacturing as bunchers (the people who actually roll the tobacco, bind it, and put it into forms) and finishers (the people who apply the wrapper), the harder job was always bunching a larger smoke and finishing the smaller smokes.

This may not be the case for companies that manufacture cigars start to finish by one roller, I really don't know.



Personally, as a hobbyist and enthusiast, I find there's a certain blend-to-size feeling I get with some cigars. I like the original La Aroma de Cuba in a 60rg more than any other size, but I can't stand Pepin Black Labels in anything over a 52. Just some blends lean themselves towards a larger ring better than others. Perdomo Lot 23 is another smoke I don't like in anything other than the 4x60 size. Can't even begin to explain why on that one.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I think what you mean is uncomfortable or awkward in your mouth. Like I said I don't have any trouble smoking a 6x60 or larger, it isn't like you have to be a snake and unhinge your jaw to smoke the larger RG cigars.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

And that's ok that you DO like larger cigars Kevin. There are good, larger RG cigars out there. The Cain F 660, MUWAT (7, 6, and 5 x 60), and even the 6 x 64 Casa Magna Gigantores (even though made me sick it was so strong) are all pretty good, big-ass cigars.

I know you smoke good cigars and I'm sure you don't just walk into a B&M and choose a cigar simply and singularly based on it's size. I think those are the cigar consumers we're talking about (well, at least I am).

Hell, I'm a self professed small RG and lancero lover, but I will still on occasion and depending on what activity I'm about to do, grab a long, large RG cigar. If you have a lot of time at home to smoke I can't fault you for grabbing something that fits the bill :tu

However if you start smoking the Puros Indios Chief on the regular we might need to have a talk :r:r

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Yep. This is what bothers me. Smoke what you want. I don't care. But don't discontinue the stuff I prefer.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Having a preference makes one a "snob"? Then aren't you a large RG snob? ;)

I'm sorry. I only look down on those members that I am taller than. :noon

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I had my first 60 ga. cigar the other day. I thought it was to big but once I started smoking it, I didn't mind it.

I don't think I would like anything bigger though.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Great topic idea!

When I first started smoking cigars I liked the HUGE ring gauges. Now I find myself preferring cigars that are right in the middle i.e., 50-52

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I'll smoke just about anything. NC, CC, Large RG, Thin RG.

I PREFER CCs with thin RG because I feel like I derive the most flavor out of them, with the least amount of harshness.

Would I smoke a 64RG, sure.. why not? The amount of time the cigar actually spends time in your mouth in a 90 minute smoke is probably only 5-7 minutes anyway. I wouldnt go out and purchase one, but if it was gifted to me Id thank them and smoke it.

I dont get the guys that say "i cant fit it in my mouth!"... I guess none of those guys ever ate a banana. The human mouth is capable of swallowing much larger than 1 inch diameter... I can provide references to some ex-girlfriends that can verify this! :xxx

I think its all gimmicky. It seems like the cigar manufacturers are trying to have the biggest cigar out there, and get mentions in Cigar Aficionado and have people talking about it.

All that being said, Id rather smoke a ERDM demi-tasse than a 8x60 $8 cigar thats made with $hit tobacco

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I think many of us who don't love the big RG cigars are concerned because small RG cigars are being fazed out and discontinued. Many new cigars aren't offered in lancero, petite corona, or corona sizes at all.

This is the same for me. My first box purchase was LGC Serie R #7 maduro (7 x 58 monsters). Now my fav go to is the San Cristobal El Principe (4.25 x 42).

Nobody likes judgemental peckerheads. :gary them.

Does that make me elitist because I'm taller than most?

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

As a smoker, all you want is to know that the cigars you love, that those you value and enjoy, will be available when you want them.

If you like the smaller gauges and the cigar-making world as a whole is moving toward larger gauges, that's worrisome; when that happens to the exclusion of the vitolas you hold dear, you react like a dog who's just had his tail stepped on: you yelp and maybe try to bite something.

My first cigar, and the only size I smoked for decades, was a corona. Since I discovered ninfas, that became my favorite vitola. I will always prefer a corona, petit corona, ninfa and lancero to any other size. Over the last decade I've seen the cigars I hold dearest discontinued in favor of larger gauges.

That does tend to piss one off.

I couldn't care less what anyone else smokes; as long as it's not a Kuba-Kuba anywhere near where I'm smoking one of my cigars.

But when a pattern of larger rings displacing those I love and enjoy becomes institutionalized to the point where I can't even find my preferences anymore, then yeah—there's gonna be resentment.

That's not to say that all 55+RG are bad; certain cigars like the FFP stand out as prime examples that a larger stick can still be a good one. But fact is, cigar shops only have space for so many cigars, and my preferences are getting pushed out in favor of the large stuff.

When I was at Casa Fernandez earlier in the year, they showed a prototype 7x70 they were working on. Now, CF's blends are all ass-kickers, across the board...put that in a 7x70 and what you have amounts to a prank, a novelty.

It leaves me wondering when this cigar passion of ours became a testosterone-fueled endurance contest.

Beer bong and a clown cigar, anyone?

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

This.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Haha, I just remembered when I first started smoking cigars, one of the first I ever had was
when we decided to go down to City Park and catch the very start of the Krewe of Endymion parade.
There was a tobacco shop with something like a Puros Indios Chief in a case, but WAY thicker in RG,
something like a 70/80. That cigar lasted for hours, but I am sure I was called a di(khead many times
that day that I was not aware of. (and so I've come full circle, lol)

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Yep, That's exactly what my post points. When I spend money on cigars I get what I prefer.

And yes I do occasionally eat a banana and no I don't hold it between my lips for a hour or more. I think that would be awkward and uncomfortable.:2

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I think you kick a lot of ass, Peter.:banger

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

So what I gather from this thread is that large RG cigars are replacing some old favorite small RG cigars. The reason this is happening is an influx of "Fly by Night" smokers because they are the only ones who smoke large RG cigars.

Maybe more large RG cigars are coming out because there are actually damn few good ones and manufacturers are trying to fill that gap. It could have nothing to do with people less informed trying to look cool. Of course thinking of it that way is less fun and you don't get to look down on people.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

If you kept reading, people explained that is not what they meant, but let's turn this into a big shitfight anyway. :rolleyes:

Keep stirrin'.....

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

So, why does this also appear to be happening with CCs as well? Is this just a worldwide shift of preference to thicker cigars?

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

yup. owner of a Belgian LCDH told me 90%of his sales were robustos. Thin, small cigars dont sell

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I don't consider a robusto a large cigar at all though. Robustos are only 50 RG...

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

And we're back to my original "Freud " point, about pricks. :r

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

it is when the thickest reg production in the Habanos portfolio is 56rg

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I agree. My preference (see:my) is <50 RG.

I would suspect cost of manufacture is universal and global,If larger RG stuff is more cost effective and proper marketing can push the product.....Hell why not! More moola in producers pockets.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

A buddy of mine who is a newer smoker also mentioned that he gets more value and smoking time from a larger cigar. He also said he just likes the look of a huge cigar, which I understood as he felt cooler.

There's numerous reasons I'm sure. As far as there being a limited selection of large ring cigars, I'm sure that was true at some point, but there doesn't seem to be any lack of them now.

I actually like the MUWAT quite a bit. Usually I go for the vitola that tastes the best to me. I often find that those usually fall in the corona/robusto sizes, but not always. With the LP #9, I prefer the Toro. Oliva V, the Torpedo. LP Undercrown, robusto. Illusione, churchill (888). Etc, etc, etc. They have differences in taste, but I'm not sure why. I've always assumed it had to do with the differences in ratio of wrapper/binder/filler.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I'm not comparing the 50 RG to the largest production cuban though, I'm comparing it to all cigar sizes out there. The whole thing that started this thread though was being flabbergasted about 64 RG cigars, which almost has a 30% larger diameter than a 50 RG. So while yes, a robusto is on the larger end of the spectrum, it's not a "big ass" cigar like I think we were talking about in most of this thread (or at least I wasn't).

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I've met Hamlet several times and he's told us that as a roller you start off rolling coronas and similar, then move up to larger sizes as you learn to control the blend, then move up to long skinny vitola's like lanceros, and finally if you're stupid you learn to roll shaped cigars. The later are the most difficult but also tend to pidegon hole you into shapes for the rest of your career which limits your earning potential as most factories roll different cigars throughout out the year and someone specialized on shaped cigars will either be without work or on low production for stretches whereas the rollers that do your standard corona-robusto-churchill lines have steady employment. Cuban rollers are also paid on a quote system, you receive a daily wage for x units produced. If you exceed production you get a daily bonus, the more difficult a cigar type is to roll the less likely you are to exceed quote and get your bonus.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

So, Geoff, basically the smaller RG are a move up from the large RG for the roller (if I read your post right).

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Sort of, I think it's

small sized medium gauge -> larger gauge -> thin gauge -> shaped/figurado

in order of increasing experience required with the shaped rollers usually having 20+ years of experience. It may be different in the non-Cuban factories.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Thanks, Geoff...yeah, all the rollers I had mentioned were from Cuba.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Aside from hurting the jaws and making me feel slightly uncomfortable which would make me want to dismiss large rg cigars anyway... i've noticed i've never had a large rg smoke where i thought it provided a better overall flavor profile/smoking experience. Just personal experience.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

A cigar called "chief". What do you make of that :r

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I generally agree, except for the yelping like a dog part.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

When did The Sopranos start airing?

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Really? You think The Sopranos has something to do with this trend? That's interesting. It definitely was a fairly large pop culture phenomenon, but I don't know how wide its influence went. I think it also has to do with advertisers trying to play up our male "machismo".

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Male "machismo" pretty much sums up the Sopranos image in a nutshell. My comment was a tongue in cheek reference to that.

Vendors make what people will buy, that's what it boils down to. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other if some random cigar maker wants to make a 150rg cigar that requires a step-down funnel just so you can wrap your lips around it to take a puff. I'm never going to buy them, frankly I'm never going to buy cigars made by 95% of the makers mentioned in this thread, so it really doesn't matter to me.

If all of a sudden Cuba decided that it was going to discontinue all it's classic lines and sizes in favour of 55+ RG power bombs will no real flavour or dimension I might have an opinion, but I really don't see that happening. Consider me a disinterested spectator on the the sidelines of the "large ring gauge wars" going on amongst the non-Cuban rollers.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I am willing to bet that 90% or more of cigar smokers:

~have never been on a cigar forum
~have never read an online review
~have no idea what "Capa" or "Viso" are
~have no idea that the wrapper is (almost always) the most flavorful part of a cigar

etc etc..

We as the online cigar smoker community may FEEL like we are a big part of the cigar world, but I assure you, nothing is further from the truth.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

The fact that machine made cigars sales dwarf handmade cigar sales is proof of this.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

We are merely just pawns in this sick, twisted game... :gary

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

:r

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

So I've never have a 60 RG or larger cigar but I just 'won' 3 San Cristobal Elegancia Grandiosos from CB which are 60 x 6" so after they sit in my humi for a couple weeks I'll have that experence. Anyway when I unwrapped them today, I thought of this thread! Wow they are big!


BTW I usually prefer 50 RG smokes.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Just look at the disco lists from the last five years, then compare them to the new vitolas added during those same years and then tell me again that this hasn't already begun. :sad

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I see a change in the vitolas that would be considered outside the core range, but that section of the product line is always in flux in response to trends. The core range has stayed mostly the same, and that's really what matters. Cuba doesn't jump on trends quite like the non-Cuban makes do, not as much competition or guys trying to make their name and stand out. Like anything, this trend towards monster cigars will end and it will move back towards smaller gauges.

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

I think big ring gauges are just the fad of the moment. Personally I get bored of a cigar about half way into a 6x60. My personal feeling is people perceive the large RG cigars as a value and reflect the state of the economy. I often see large RG cigars set down half way through.

Seeing this trend reminds me of the Nub craze about three years ago and those slew of clone fire plugs but those have almost disappeared. Cigar smokers often are looking for the "what's new cigar" on the shelves and I see the large RG cigars just being the latest trend. Next year the trend will be different IMHO

Re: The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge
 

Depends on what you consider core. 42 used to be the standard ring guage, but now the corona has been replaced by the Robusto at 50 as the standard of our era. For those who prefer ring guages 46 and below, the core of the habanos profile has been gutted. If you smoke mostly robustos, pyramides and churchills, then sure, you're fine, but many lonsdales, coronas, petit coronas and an ungodly number of lanceros and panatelas have been abandoned in favor of jawbreakers. From my vantage point, the damage is done.