Re: Shilala Beads
 

I think i'm gonna give em a try.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I think i will give the beads a try at some point, but anything that creates such a violent reaction when in direct contact with water is a bit scary to me.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

There shouldn't be any liquid water in your humidor so you'll be safe ;)

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Eric, all you have to do is use an iron. Set it on it's highest setting and fix the seams. When you iron them, you want to lay the bag on a piece of fabric, but NOT a towel.
Press down with the iron and hold it until you know the bag has come to temperature. Pressing is important. It pushes the blue around and makes it stick good.
The other option is to just sew the edges.
The fabric is tricky to seal. I can tell if it's right by squeezing the bags after I make them. At a time, I had a crappy iron and had a lot of fail that I didn't catch. I got a new super fancy iron and it alleviated the fail. :tu
I have a couple two ounce sticks in my travel humi that I made a long time ago, the ends are splitting on me. I need to fix them. They're one of the million things I have to fix around here. :)

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Don't do that, Eric. The beads will fall right through. They're too small for pantyhose. Plus if you put them in a ball, you lose the surface area that's working for you. I tried pantyhose. It makes a huge mess. :D

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I was thinking that, too. I had a bag split on me the other day, and I just took
some packing tape and sealed the edge that way. I lose about 8 percent of my air
exchange area, but now I have a handle to grab. The beads will not all go through
the nylons, but enough will that you will be sorry you did that.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I stuck a tiny piece of duct tape on my one on the roof of my travel humi. That worked up until this past weekend. :D
If you stretch the nylons taught, it's kinda like they aren't there. More like a sieve than a bag. When I was finding a fabric to use, I tried almost everything. I can't remember how I came across the fusible knit. I think I was looking for something else in the fabric store and was gonna use fabric glue or this iron-on glue strip they have. When I saw that stuff, I was all like "Dood. Nice."
It wouldn't come apart when I got it ironed right, although it is delicate. The delicate is a tradeoff because it's so sheer, doesn't stretch, and it allows a perfect transfer of water to air.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I am a little confused on how to recharge the beads. Usually I would put them in a bag with a small dish of warm water and let the beads slowly recharge. Reading the site it says that is exactly how you should raise the PH of the beads. I have noticed that my humidor now stays around 68.

How do you charge them without raising the RH?

Re: Shilala Beads
 

You don't recharge the Shilala beads like you do the Heartfelt beads. Once they achieve the rh you want that is where they stay until you remove them from that environment. Once you move them to another environment they will try to achieve that ph level. That's why they say to store them in a ziplock back when not in use.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

how small are the beads? they'd have to be almost microscopic to fall through panty hose?

Re: Shilala Beads
 

You do have to recharge them right? So the question is how do you recharge them without changing the PH?

Re: Shilala Beads
 

The only time you should have to add moisture is if: a) you have a bad seal/leaky humidor, b) you open the humidor ALOT and leave it open for long periods of time. If your RH does drop, and stay, at a lower level than you want you just need to put the beads in a sealed container with a water soaked sponge for a few hours to increase their water saturation. When you put the beads back into the humidor your RH will raise as the beads shed moisture in reseeking equilibrium.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

No humidor is perfect and the beads will need recharging.

If you put them in a sealed container with a water soaked spong you will raise the PH.

Still the question remains....

Re: Shilala Beads
 

traditional humidors are meant to 'breathe', the seals aren't perfect because they aren't supposed to be.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

No, I'm not kidding. IF your beads need recharging you put them in a sealed container with a water soaked sponge.... just like the instructions on the website (and those that come with the beads) say so the beads can absorb additional moisture. That in turn will raise the RH of the humidor when you put the beads back in. If the beads scrub ammonia like the website claims then their effect on the PH will trend towards neutral, but in general PH is not a major concern.

I never said they didn't breathe, I said that unless you have a crappy seal or open your humidor all the time you should not have to add moisture. A well constructed humidor breathes primarily through it's wood, and the moisture loss should be very very minimal unless you happen to live somewhere extremely arid. The average RH in my area is typically around 40%, when I was using Heartfelt beads I would only have to recharge them maybe 3 times a year. Given everyone's posted and documented experience with HCM beads I expect that, once my humidors have reached the 70% steady state I'm moving them towards that I will for all intents and purposes not need to add moisture.

Your mileage may vary, but you are constantly and frequently having to add moisture you either live in a desert or have a leaky humidor :2

Re: Shilala Beads
 

There's recharging instructions at Michael's site. The link is in my sig.
The beads work via equilibrium, as mentioned.
They hold a vast amount of water as opposed to conventional beads. By way of a sh!t ton of mathematical and physical properties, they need to be "recharged" very seldom, even in a "traditionally mildly leaky humidor" situation.

To give you an idea, you can open a winador around 800 times before the beads will move one point in RH.
Granted, that statement is assuming the room is within 20 points of the beads. As in the beads are at 65% and the room is between 45% and 85%. There are a zillion variables to do that equation, and the final number relies on the very ends of the equation. In normal instances, you can open and close your humi forever without the beads changing, because the winter is drier and the summer is wetter, and the beads simply recondition upwards and downwards across the time period.
A humi has to really have an exceptionally bad seal to affect the beads negatively. So bad that it doesn't fall into the "traditional breathing category" whatsoever. It has to fall into the "it's more a shoebox than a humidor" category.
I'm not doing the math for someone who lives in the rainforest or in the desert. :)
Hope this helps!!! :tu

Re: Shilala Beads
 

On the ammonia/PH thing...
To recharge, you use water vapor. That way there is no chance of soiling the surface of the beads. You use distilled water.

The beads trap ammonia via their structure and covalency.
The beads are full of tunnels. Those tunnels are small enough to hold out free hydrocarbns, yet large enough to let in ammonia molecules.
Once ammonia is drawn in (and I say "drawn in" because it is via the electrical charge of the beads) it is bound inside the beads.
There is so much ammonia capturing potential in a volume of beads per volume of humidor space that they can never become saturated with ammonia in a humidor, no matter how many wet cigars you put in there.
It's another huge mathematical equation that bears that out. The never is because there's roughly 3,000 years of potential in a volume of beads per volume of humidor space, based on a constant flow of ammonia from cigars for that entire period. So I suppose never is a bit agressive.
Cool thing is that if you do live for 3000 years, all you have to do is steam clean the beads, all the ammonia will be released, and your beads are brand new and ready for another 3000 years.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I had a tube of hearfelt beads in a desktop humi for over a year, and was contuinually having to recharge them with distilled water. I bought 1.5 lbs of the HCM beads from Scott for my vino when I bought it almost 2 years ago, and have only had to put a dish of distilled water in there maybe 2 times and it has now been at least a year since i had to do it and the humidity doesn't fluctuate. I also have two travel humis and bought what I thought was going to be one two ounce tube of HCM beads to go in my 36 count, and Scott sent a 2 ounce and a 1 ounce for the price of the 2 ounce. I now have to 1 ounce in my 15 count. I know that the comparison between a desktop and vino isn't apples to apples, but for my money as long as the HCM beads are available I will spend my money on them.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I certainly do not want or need an argument, but Scott Shilala is a stand up guy. When I was trying to figure out what to put in the vino for humidification I called him on the phone and he talked to me for an hour explaining how they worked and why they were better than anything else that is available. So even if Scott has an "interest" in the beads I will still buy them.:)

Re: Shilala Beads
 

The mental image popped into my head of somebody anal retentive about their RH and trying to maintain it in a shoebox and just not able to figure out why it wouldn't stay stable. It cracked me up :r:r:r

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I do not see the recharging instructions on the site. I checked several times but maybe I am just missing it. Maybe you can just tell me.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Here's what I found on the site:

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I think I get your question now.
Your PH was a typo, you meant RH.
You don't need to "recharge" them at all if they don't need to be. You determine whether or not they need recharged (it's "reconditioned", actually) by reading your hygrometer.
They don't need to be reconditioned just for the sake of reconditioning, as in "do it once a month".
Most guys never have to do anything to them. Some guys, once or twice a year. Some more often depending on their humis.
When someone has to recondition frequently, there's only one reason why that would happens. It's because humidity is escaping or entering the humidor. That means it leaks too much.
Then you just gotta seal it up a bit, beit with silicone or a rubber seal or whatever.
Did I get your question and answer it that time?
If not, help me understand and I'll do what I can. :tu

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Caring instructions are on the "about" portion of the site and there is a link at the bottom on how to use your beads.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Yes, I did mean RH not PH. We are not talking fishtanks here.

Now I understand. They only need to be 'recharged' if they fall below the desired RH level. Took me a minute but I get it now.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

So I have a question, which I thought about when I saw the comment to only use distilled water to recharge. Note, I use the HCM beads and am thrilled with them, and I have not had to recharge them after months of use in Colorado.

On to the question, what difference would it make if distilled water (vs. tap) was used to recharge them if the water was being applied as a vapor (as in, evap'd from a sponge or water, etc). By definition, isn't turning the water into vapor going to be creating 'distilled' water in the process? I'm a biology guy, not a chemistry guy, so maybe I'm missing something critical.

I've always used distilled (back when I used traditional humidifiers, anyway) but got to thinking about what the difference would be in this application.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I had the same question not so long ago. The small part is that evaporated water isn't distilled. It'll carry stuff away with it, to some extent.
That isn't the biggie, though.
If you use tap water, you take tons of spores, dirt, mold food, and crap to your humidor. Plus if you are using a sponge, it'll mold in a very short time.
By using distilled water, you keep a much more sanitary condition for a longer period of time.
There are mold spores everywhere, so in time, a distilled water soaked sponge will eventually mold, but it'll mold umpteen times faster with tap water. Both because there's more spores present and because tap water provides them food.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Well, that makes sense. But if we're putting the sponge and beads in a ziplock bag (not the humidor) to recharge it, would it still matter? Is this a question of contaminants making it onto the bead bag?

Re: Shilala Beads
 

It might not matter as much if you are recharging in a ziplock baggie, but distilled water is so cheap and easy to come by, why risk it?

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I think it is scientifically impossible to 'carry things with it' as water evaporates out of
the sponge and is taken up by beads. But I am no scientist. But I DO make fun of them. :D

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Brad, I thought he same exact thing up until not too long ago. When I was developing the beads I went and read up on water vapor. In reading, I found out water vapor can carry all kinds of stuff along with it by binding to it. I never knew that despite the fact I should because of the work I was in, plus I knew molecules of water bound to crap in the atmosphere and other molecules of water to become clouds and fog and so forth.
I had planned on writing "tap water" in the instructions to make things easier on people. Then I found that tons of mold spores are present in tap water. Plus vapor from tap water is more likely to carry crap.
So right back to distilled water we went.
I always used distilled water cause the old guys here said to use it. It was nice to find out why. :)

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Huh. That's interesting to know, thanks for sharing that knowledge, Shilala!

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Love learning about this stuff.


Thanks for sharing Shilala!

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Shilala does know his stuff!

I had the pleasure of speaking to him on the phone yesterday and he had some solutions for my win-o-dor humidty issues i was having. I took his advice and so far everything looks 10 times better than before.

Great guy :tu

Re: Shilala Beads
 

:tpd::tu

Re: Shilala Beads
 

:tu:tu:tu

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I went to go check out a humidor today that i found on CL and bought it. The dimensions are; L- 24"xW-24"xH-30". After doing the calculations for Shilala beads it says I need; 17280 cu.in. or 2 lb. The humidor is supposed to hold 2000 sticks but I'll only have about 200 loose and 4-5 boxes in there for now. Do i need to actually purchase 2 lb or can I do with less for now?

The current owner uses the old green foam, and it holds temp and rh at 70/67%. I checked his hygrometer and the min/max in memory was 63/72. Any help would be great, I've never had to deal with a humi this big but he made me an offer I just couldn't turn down.

**If this is the wrong place to post this apologies

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Well, unless I'm incorrect in understanding how that type of humidification works, it doesn't matter how many sticks you have in the humidor...just how much room the beads have to humidify. So yeah, if that's how much the website says you need I would stick with 2lbs.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

thanks

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Ok I'm just about to put in my order for 2LB of HCM beads and I was just wondering about something. I noticed on the heartfelt site that you can purchase the beads without containers, just on their own. I can't seem to find that on the shilala beads site. I know I can just cut them out of the bag if i wanted to or are they designed a certain way to work better in those bags?

One last thing the site recommends doubling the weight it recommends is there really a need?

Thanks again in advance.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

You don't need to, it is just recommended because it is always better to have too much than too little.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

cool, thanks

Re: Shilala Beads
 

How much would I need for a cabinet the size of an Aristocrat?

Re: Shilala Beads
 

the easiest way to figure it out is to get the dimensions of your humidor, go to http://hcmbeads.com/products.asp , enter your dimensions and it'll spit out exactly what you need.

I just did this yesterday and my humi is 24x24x30 and it came out to 17280 cu.in. = 2LB
its literally play

Re: Shilala Beads
 

They're designed to work in the bags they're made in.
The fabric is very sheer and durable for the best possible air transfer. The bags are just the right size to take full advantage of the bead's properties, and allow maximum exposure per volume of beads.
Another infoid is that the beads are tiny. Take them out of the bags and they will be all over your world.

Most everyone always uses two times the amount of beads necessary. I use three or four times what's necessary cause I'm mental. It's kinda like how we buy way more cigars than we'll ever smoke. :)
In the case of any beads, more can't hurt, and the more you have the quicker the recovery time will be in your humi.
If you use the same surface area amount of Michael's beads as opposed to any other media, they will bring a humi back to the desired RH over 800% faster than any otherstuff.
If you take them out of the bags and put them in bowls and things like that, you're just screwing yourself over. Unless you dump them on cookie sheets in your humidor. That'd be better. :D
It's another math-laden thing as to how beads work, but that's the short of it. "Don't take them out of the bags" is a really good suggestion. :tu

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Shame you guys don't offer replacment bags for these beads when they split. Maybe have a version sealed with velcro for those who need to repair the original broken bags. I've inquired more than once but have never been offered a solution. Might consider this an opportunity to grow the customer service side of the business.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Eric, all you have to do to fix your bags is re-iron the seams using the iron on it's highest setting.
It's super easy.
Use an old tshirt under the bags, NOT a towel. Press and hold for a few seconds in each area.
You can always hand-sew the bags, too. It wouldn't be too awful tough. :tu

Re: Shilala Beads
 

Just ordered some beads. I have HF beads in my humi's now so I will do a comparison for anyone who is interested.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I will be ordering some as well. This thread has sold me. Also I am having with the heartfelt beads. If I have the vino upstairs they can't get the humidity high enough and if I put it in the basement where it's more humid it can't get it down low enough and I'm tired of screwing with them.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

^ Me too this has been a very informative thread, so I had to get in on the Bead action.

Re: Shilala Beads
 

I certainly would be.

Because this happens to me....


_____they can't get the humidity high enough (in the winter for me)and if I put it in the basement where it's more humid it can't get it down low enough(in the summer)______


For me though if I put my coolerdors in "body bag" type garbage bags that does solve it. Of course I'd rather not deal with it.

I will also say that the HF beads when I bought them were the best thing available. I have not tried Shilala's beads so I can't comment on them.