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-   -   Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9? (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=58701)

Brlesq 10-19-2012 12:01 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G (Post 1735886)
That's a helluva jump to make. One guy gets an underfilled cigar that slips past QC and all of a sudden your assertion is that the entire line is being intentionally underfilled to increase production?

No, they have not "lightened up on the leaf". The current scarcity is mostly due to a few years of wrapper leaf shortages and other issues, so "lighting up on the (filler) leaf" wouldn't do anything to help those regards. Additionally, any change to the filler would noticeably alter the flavor.

The guys over at DE wouldn't even consider doing anything like that. They aren't going to sacrifice their flagship cigar, or any of their lines for that matter, into crap just to milk an extra 10% production by shorting tobacco. In fact, I can't think of any major manufacturer who would be that foolish and dishonest.

Since they can only make as many LPs as materials allow, you have the alternate products they have released, the Undercrown made from more readily available tobaccos and the Papas Fritas made from the trimmings of the LP line.

As for the cigar Dunkel got, sounds like a "bad" stick. It is a handmade product after all. And while they do catch a lot of the off cigars, sometimes things slip past QC (hey, they're only human too).
That was a question, not an assertion. But I'm not sure it would make the cigar "bad" if they did. I'm a big fan of all things Liga Privada, and JD and Steve Saka have always struck me as stand-up guys. No insult meant by that question, so I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way.

jluck 10-19-2012 12:06 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
I would suit and/or burn the B&M down.;)

Thrak 10-19-2012 01:10 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitch (Post 1735782)
Yes I would. What's the problem with that? If it's truly a bad cigar, it should be made up. They get it back from the rep.
How would you do that? Do you save all your receipts for the cigars you buy? Would you walk in with a mostly smoked cigar and complain? And what would the shop get back? A single stick?


Quote:
It's all about keeping customers happy and encouraging them to come back. If I get stiffed enough times on 10 to 12 buck sticks, I'd seriously reevaluate what I buy if the B&M refused to make up bad product.
If you get multiple bad sticks from a B&M, I'd consider going to a different one. A single bad stick is bound to happen at some point.

Quote:
So, if I bought a no. 9 from a B&M and it died due to poor construction, you darn skippy I'd ask for a replacement. Perhaps you have gobs of disposable income that would insulate you from this. But, FYI, I've only requested a make up twice in a 3 year period. I've not had the experience that some have had in a run of bad sticks.
I dont have gobs of income or time, which is why I wouldnt waste my time, and gas, driving all the way back to the shop to try to get another cigar.

FWIW, I've asked to return cigars to CI.com and it went very smooth. But that was after 4 out of 10 were bad, not 1, and it was in fact months later...

But for a single stick man? :sh

T.G 10-19-2012 01:58 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brlesq (Post 1735919)
That was a question, not an assertion. But I'm not sure it would make the cigar "bad" if they did. I'm a big fan of all things Liga Privada, and JD and Steve Saka have always struck me as stand-up guys. No insult meant by that question, so I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way.
Understood.

It would totally change the flavor, there are 5 distinctly different leaves in the filler, removing one would be leaving out a component of that flavor.

DE uses a slightly non-standard folding system for the filler when rolling, they have some extra folds in there to create additional air passages through the filler. In order for the extra folds & passages to work though, they have to use a bit less tobacco in the filler than if they were to roll it with the more traditional methods. IIRC, Jon said it was like 15%. Now, if you significantly short that by making all the leaves smaller, then you're going to have so much draw through there, the cigar isn't going to burn even remotely evenly, and the ratio from wrapper & binder vs filler will change enough that the wrapper, if it will even burn at that point, will be overwhelmingly noticeable.

The other thing is that even if they were to short all the filler by trimming the leaves a bit smaller, it wouldn't be enough to make another LP out of. Without doing it, there's already enough trimming that doesn't get used in the LP to make the Papas Fritas and still leave a pile of scrap for picadura, adding to the LP scrap won't get them more PFs, it'll just make a bigger pile of picadura and a bunch of LPs with the draw of a paper towel roll tube. Neither of which are worth a whole lot.

If I had to guess, what happened to Dunkel's cigar was that possibly the filler bunch was cut/torn a bit small - enough to open it up a tiny bit, but yet not enough to cause the bundle to weigh light when QC puts the finished wheel of cigars on the scale. If a tiny amount less filler causes a cigar to draw like that, then imagine what a significant removal would be like...

cmitch 10-19-2012 02:48 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrak (Post 1735948)
How would you do that? Do you save all your receipts for the cigars you buy? Would you walk in with a mostly smoked cigar and complain? And what would the shop get back? A single stick?




If you get multiple bad sticks from a B&M, I'd consider going to a different one. A single bad stick is bound to happen at some point.



I dont have gobs of income or time, which is why I wouldnt waste my time, and gas, driving all the way back to the shop to try to get another cigar.

FWIW, I've asked to return cigars to CI.com and it went very smooth. But that was after 4 out of 10 were bad, not 1, and it was in fact months later...

But for a single stick man? :sh
Thrak, you are making waaay too big an issue out of this. One would wonder why it bothers you so much? Every B&M I know has a long standing policy of replacing bad sticks and every single one of my smoking buddies has had one made up. I don't really know why you make so many assumptions such as implying I'd make a special trip to do so.

lenguamor 10-19-2012 04:58 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Every cigar smoker should have a draw tool. It really is as simple as that.

I've "saved" cigars worth hundreds of dollars with one $15 tool, which I keep in my travel box all the time.

Brlesq 10-19-2012 05:11 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenguamor (Post 1736082)
Every cigar smoker should have a draw tool. It really is as simple as that.

I've "saved" cigars worth hundreds of dollars with one $15 tool, which I keep in my travel box all the time.

I use a Havana Saver for the majority of my cigars because I'm a nubber! And it works as a draw tool as well. I have the Iron Cross model.

http://www.havanasaver.com/content/products

Sonic04GT 10-19-2012 07:14 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Where do you guys purchase these from? I'll Google around later.

Edit - Think I might grab this guy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/United-State...item4ab4ea1f7c

or this

http://www.thompsoncigar.com/product...ts?cm_vc=10001

oooo35980 10-19-2012 10:05 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G (Post 1735968)

DE uses a slightly non-standard folding system for the filler when rolling, they have some extra folds in there to create additional air passages through the filler.
That's interesting, sometimes when my cutter isn't at hand I take a pocket knife and cut around the cap of a cigar, then pull off the cap, leaving the internals unmolested. I've noticed that a lot of LPs have this little divot dead center in the head of the cigar. Never noticed it on any other stick, not that I've gone around checking for it. I have wondered about that little divot a few times, is it there on purpose to facilitate LPs near unfailingly good draw? Hell has anyone else noticed it?

Alternatively I could be crazy and imagining things.

T.G 10-19-2012 10:28 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oooo35980 (Post 1736170)
That's interesting, sometimes when my cutter isn't at hand I take a pocket knife and cut around the cap of a cigar, then pull off the cap, leaving the internals unmolested. I've noticed that a lot of LPs have this little divot dead center in the head of the cigar. Never noticed it on any other stick, not that I've gone around checking for it. I have wondered about that little divot a few times, is it there on purpose to facilitate LPs near unfailingly good draw? Hell has anyone else noticed it?

Alternatively I could be crazy and imagining things.

If we are talking about the same thing, I've seen that before on many different cigars, possibly some of them being Liga Privadas. It has to do with the way the binder or wrapper leaf is applied (either could cause it), when the buncher or roller twists the end of the leaf up around the head, they spin it into a little tail, press the head down on her rolling block to form the rounded shape which will push this tail into the cigar slightly.

The slightly more open bunching of the LP would make it easier for this stub tail to make a noticeable divot in the filler bunch.

Next time you cut a cap off that way and find a divot in the filler, take a look at the inside of the cap, the inward projecting "tail" should be visible.

forgop 10-19-2012 11:51 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic04GT (Post 1736134)
Where do you guys purchase these from? I'll Google around later.

Edit - Think I might grab this guy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/United-State...item4ab4ea1f7c

or this

http://www.thompsoncigar.com/product...ts?cm_vc=10001
PM Forrest (Golfnut). He makes some nice draw tools.

MurphysLaw 10-20-2012 12:04 AM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by forgop (Post 1736186)
PM Forrest (Golfnut). He makes some nice draw tools.
This. Slickster81 also makes a nice draw tool.

T.G 10-20-2012 12:24 AM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
I've been quite pleased with the draw tool that I got from Troy ("Boom").

TJtorpedo 10-20-2012 07:00 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G (Post 1736176)
If we are talking about the same thing, I've seen that before on many different cigars, possibly some of them being Liga Privadas. It has to do with the way the binder or wrapper leaf is applied (either could cause it), when the buncher or roller twists the end of the leaf up around the head, they spin it into a little tail, press the head down on her rolling block to form the rounded shape which will push this tail into the cigar slightly.

The slightly more open bunching of the LP would make it easier for this stub tail to make a noticeable divot in the filler bunch.

Next time you cut a cap off that way and find a divot in the filler, take a look at the inside of the cap, the inward projecting "tail" should be visible.
I have noticed this on many an Undercrown, as well as some other brands. Very interesting info, I hadn't really given it much thought until I read this.

As far as LPs, I don't smoke a ton of them due to price/HTF, but I've never had one that didn't smoke perfectly.

iaMkcK 10-21-2012 12:30 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
All the DE cigars I've had were exquisite, never had any issues like those mentioned above. Johnathan and Steve hold it down.. I'm sure if you e-mailed them they'd work to fix the issue..

With that being said: I feel that'd probably be bad form to e-mail a company over something like that. Sorry to be so late to the discussion - I'm just a newb. <3

Scottw 10-21-2012 12:37 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
The last one I smoked was sub par at best but as stated earlier, they are handmade and have the possibility of not living up to expectations. I certainly wouldn't email or call DE or the B & M because of it. Stuff happens.

kelmac07 10-21-2012 01:04 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Have been fortunate enough to have never had a single issue with a No. 9. Other than I never can have enough of them. :dr :dr

SpruceBruce 10-21-2012 01:51 PM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
The only issue I've had with the Liga stuff is when they run out :D

While I personally wouldn't ask to have it replaced due to the hand made nature of the product, I have no doubt if you asked, DE would replace it. Jonathan Drew and the rest of DE take quality control VERY seriously. JD routinely posts on reddit in r/cigars and always offers to replace sticks that have construction issues. Just one of the reasons I love supporting them.

dave 10-22-2012 08:40 AM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceBruce (Post 1736681)
The only issue I've had with the Liga stuff is when they run out :D

While I personally wouldn't ask to have it replaced due to the hand made nature of the product, I have no doubt if you asked, DE would replace it. Jonathan Drew and the rest of DE take quality control VERY seriously. JD routinely posts on reddit in r/cigars and always offers to replace sticks that have construction issues. Just one of the reasons I love supporting them.
+1. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that maybe JD and Steve have a small backfire on their hands. They've been so gracious and public about immediately trying to satisfy customers who've had a bad stick....maybe just my overactive imagination, but I suspect we see more posts (on all forums) taking DE to task for bad singles. A cynic would say that some may be more likely to announce a bad experience for attention or replacements from them. I am NOT passing judgement on OP here - just an observation in general after following numerous forums. Really.

SpruceBruce 10-22-2012 09:32 AM
Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave (Post 1737032)
+1. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that maybe JD and Steve have a small backfire on their hands. They've been so gracious and public about immediately trying to satisfy customers who've had a bad stick....maybe just my overactive imagination, but I suspect we see more posts (on all forums) taking DE to task for bad singles. A cynic would say that some may be more likely to announce a bad experience for attention or replacements from them. I am NOT passing judgement on OP here - just an observation in general after following numerous forums. Really.
I would guess that DE keeps some sort of record of what they send out, but maybe not. At the end of the day, it really does not cost them much to make things right. As many have mentioned, one of their trademarks is having such good quality control to begin with.

I also like to believe that our fellow S/BOTLs are better than trying to rip off a manufacturer that goes out of their way to support the community.


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