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-   -   WTF is happening to our kids????? (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25521)

replicant_argent 12-04-2009 01:10 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
I do believe that unfortunately, in the diversity of life, that there are creatures, such as men and dogs, that are simply Wired Wrong from the Factory.

akumushi 12-04-2009 01:11 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Studies have shown that psychopath/sociopaths have different brain chemistries, not just poor upbringing. I think this kid has some pretty clear signs of being a sociopath. That's not to say that he wasn't exposed to too much violent media and neglected by his parents, but that sort of thing doesn't happen without some deep rooted disfunction. I do find it ironic that he found a "hero" with his own sick mentality on a television show (Dexter), but keep in mind that that show is on a premium channel (Showtime), and is geared toward adults. It's like the 10 year olds that recently beat up a red head because they watched Southpark. Who are the idiot parents letting their children watch this cr@p?

Subvet642 12-04-2009 01:13 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jledou (Post 668092)
I would assume that the show is on TV would be "criminal minds" a well written and disturbing show that my wife and I watch regularly. I can see where it or others that are similar could lead to something if there is not the correct right/wrong thought process morally programmed into the kid from the beginning.
I would put my money on the parenting though rather than the TV/video games. Spend the time up front to install a proper sense of what is right and what's wrong and they will be able to distinguish between reality and TV/video games.
I saw that movie Hanibal a few years back, and it had me freaked out for weeks. Whoever wrote that thing has some serious issues. I won't watch modern horror flicks anymore. :confused:

icantbejon 12-04-2009 01:14 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFox (Post 668113)
Psychopathy is a personality disorder whose hallmark is a lack of empathy. Robert Hare, a researcher in the field describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, sex and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse.



While I agree with some of the above points made by other posters the answer in my mind falls on the definition above.

I have to say that while proper parenting and guidelines can help in a normal to borderline scenario that isn`t always the case. This person (loosely used term) did not gain their lack of remorse or inability to conform to societal norms from TV shows or video games. In my opinion it is an easy scape goat to point fingers at various media and forms of entertainment.

But think of some things.

When I was younger I played cowboys and indians with toy guns and toy knives and toy tomahawks. I scalped many a friend in those days. Now I won`t contend to the political correctness of this behaviour but I did not grow up wanting to kill anyone just to see what it felt like.

We played cops and robbers where we tied up (with real rope) the banker and held him hostage...........yet it didn`t lead me to a life of crime.

I started reading things like Helter Skelter (the Manson Murders) and Jack the Ripper when I was 10 to 12 years old............guess what I have never hacked up a body just to watch it bleed.

Ahhh then it must be that good parenting that I had...............well lets just suffice it to say that is definitely not the case.

So maybe TV wasn`t as violent (not sure about that) and my video game was pong but that didn`t mean there weren`t many different sources of extreme violence to be found or made up.

People are just phucked up.............is it more than when we where younger..... I don`t think so but we have Internet, cell phone camera`s wireless access, 8000 channels, satellite radio, nothing happens that we don`t hear about. The days of your sister getting pregnant and spending the summer at a distant aunts and coming back cured don`t exist.

Don`t get me wrong I don`t feel sorry for this kid (the murderer) in fact we could get into a long discussion on my opinions surrounding the justice (or lack thereof) system.

Sorry if I have offended anyone but lets not lose sight of things............this is just a rabid dog.
I generally agree with everything you've stated. I hate blaming TV, music, and video games for peoples' behavior. I prefer, more often than not, to call a crazy a crazy. However, I don't think we can completely dismiss some of these potentially contributing factors.

Subvet642 12-04-2009 01:29 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFox (Post 668113)
Psychopathy is a personality disorder whose hallmark is a lack of empathy. Robert Hare, a researcher in the field describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, sex and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse.
My wife and I refer to that as Reptilian.

akumushi 12-04-2009 01:34 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subvet642 (Post 668145)
My wife and I refer to that as Reptilian.
There's an interesting book on psychopaths in the white collar world called Snakes in Suits.

Isom-niac2 12-04-2009 01:45 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
I believe it can be both TV and video games. A few years ago, they found the body of a woman with her head, hands, and feet cut off. The suspects turned out to be her two young sons, who saw the dismemberment in a video game they had been playing.

I think a kid with some type of psychopathic characteristics, could be influenced by TV and/or video games to what extent no one knows until they lash out against society and use it as their defense.

replicant_argent 12-04-2009 01:47 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Feral Youth. Can't get the phrase out of my head.

coastietech 12-04-2009 01:53 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subvet642 (Post 668064)
I certainly don't mean to disparage all parents; most parents and their kids are really quite good, it's only the bad ones that we ever hear about. Maybe, in today's world of instant communication, we just hear about these things more often.
I've bolded reason why it seems like it is worse now.

We as a society are not any better or worse than we have ever been as a society.

The fact that it seems like we are is because of the access to the amount of information we have at our fingertips.

The "society is worse now than it was when I was growing up" thinking is a fallacy and has been disproven over and over.

;s

kydsid 12-04-2009 02:28 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastietech (Post 668164)
I've bolded reason why it seems like it is worse now.

We as a society are not any better or worse than we have ever been as a society.

The fact that it seems like we are is because of the access to the amount of information we have at our fingertips.

The "society is worse now than it was when I was growing up" thinking is a fallacy and has been disproven over and over.

;s
:tpd: My mother was a teacher for 35+ years. Till the day she retired she always said the same thing: "The kids are the same the parents just got dumber".

And the stories she had about evil little children from the 40's on varied very little. But trust me when little Johny Rotten skined and flayed a felow 14 year old in 1950's Tucson no one but the people of Tucson knew about it.

Sauer Grapes 12-04-2009 02:28 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
I have to agree very strongly that parents need to more closely monitor and control the types of entertainment their kids have access to and at what age. This violent behavior, sexting, and other similar behavior that shocks us at how young some of the kids doing are have to be in part caused by kids being exposed to certain types if violence, sex, and other situations at ages too young for them to truly deal with them on a rational basis.

It seems to be a classic situation of crap entering their minds coming back out in their actions because they haven't developed the ability to filter the information yet.

Starscream 12-04-2009 02:35 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt (Post 667981)
I teach in both middle and high schools. You are only touching the tip of the iceberg.
I didn't know that you were a teacher. I teach 9th grade English and see some kids who are very sadistic. I would say that the world is getting worse, but despite all the bad publicity, we are the most educated society in the world today.

loki 12-04-2009 02:57 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant_argent (Post 668117)
good thoughts, Shawn.
Now, explain "Sexting" to me.
give me your phone number, I'll show ya what it's about http://forums.offtopic.com/images/sm...ingnaughty.gif


on an unrelated note to my above post, my wife wonders why I want to carry a gun

Cigary 12-04-2009 04:06 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant_argent (Post 668070)
I wouldn't discount the combination of lack of parenting + TV far too mature for him as an audience + extremely violent video games + a kid that might be a little "off" = a bad prescription for a developing human being.
How old was the kid? 17? I bet anyone five bucks this kid has been watching graphic horror movies, watching R rated content on TV, (can you say MMA?) and been playing FPS video games for a few years. I won't delve into what personal and/or mental health issues he or his parents might have.
Ditto this and as has been said,,,just a tip of the iceberg when it comes to how they were raised and by whom. I am glad I won't be around to see the next generation deal with all of the issues that they will own because of all of the "crap" that is going on now. It starts with the family and if it fails there then there is no hope. Anyone who has studied the fall of the Roman Empire can see the similarities. While RArgent and I don't agree on a lot of things I back up what he says here 200% and commend him standing up and saying this.

SilverFox 12-04-2009 05:00 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Perhaps there are two arguments here.

For I agree on the one side that we are doomed in a lot of ways as parents fail to bring up their children with the respect and dignity and work ethic that our parents instilled in us. There are every day instances where I am aghast at how people interact with each other and at the expectations of todays youth and the whats in it for me attitude.

But....... and here is where I maybe step off.

TV or Video games did not create this kid. A phsycopath or a criminal sociopath is not created by inappropriate media. That is like saying sexual preference is determined by external sources or that you can cause the sex of an unborn child by playing the appropriate gender related music while in the act of procreation. This is a mis-wired individual and they are as prevalent in our society as they are in third world countries where media influences are not as prevalent.

I am all about careful censoring of products that kids are exposed too and I take a great interest in the games my children play and the movies they watch and try my damnedest to balance that with appropriate diet, physical activity and parental guidance. But guess what, in the end, I as a parent will not control who they are or what they will become if there is a predisposition to sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies.

coastietech 12-04-2009 05:35 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andysutherland (Post 668210)
I didn't know that you were a teacher. I teach 9th grade English and see some kids who are very sadistic. I would say that the world is getting worse, but despite all the bad publicity, we are the most educated society in the world today.
No offense but this statement is not a true one. We are not the most educated society by far and America actually ranks fairly low in the world when it comes to intelligence and schooling.

DougBushBC 12-04-2009 05:41 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastietech (Post 668382)
No offense but this statement is not a true one. We are not the most educated society by far and America actually ranks fairly low in the world when it comes to intelligence and schooling.
Joe, the truth of the matter is that we are ranked low in "SCHOOLING" but I doubt you would find any data to prove "INTELLIGENCE" was low in the US of A. We have a society that includes all peoples and our melting pot might not hit high on the metrics that the Europeans use to determine schooling rankings, but the US is in the forefront of virtually all scientific research and that is not due to our schooling but our country values intelligence unlike many others.

I am not trying to say that "RAH RAH USA" we are the best at these matters, but we get a bad name because the people giving the rankings choose how to rank...

Skywalker 12-04-2009 05:55 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
One of Shawn's points needs to be explored a little more...
Yes. Many of us, as children, played violent role playing (dramatic play) with our friends and siblings, such as cowboys and Indians, or war play. This gave us opportunities to hurt others and be hurt with limitations. That’s what play is for... it allows grown up behavior in a safe environment. I don't see children playing like this anymore. Parents are afraid to let their children play in the neighborhood, so the children play video games and watch TV and movies. They have very little positive social interaction.

When you were playing with your friends and things began to get a little rough, you let them know it and they let up. I obtained plenty of bumps and bruises from my best friends and they received a few in turn. That's how we learned restraint. You don't learn restraint from TV or video games, on the contrary; you learn to destroy without restraint!:2

coastietech 12-04-2009 06:04 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougBushBC (Post 668387)
Joe, the truth of the matter is that we are ranked low in "SCHOOLING" but I doubt you would find any data to prove "INTELLIGENCE" was low in the US of A. We have a society that includes all peoples and our melting pot might not hit high on the metrics that the Europeans use to determine schooling rankings, but the US is in the forefront of virtually all scientific research and that is not due to our schooling but our country values intelligence unlike many others.

I am not trying to say that "RAH RAH USA" we are the best at these matters, but we get a bad name because the people giving the rankings choose how to rank...
I wasn't trying to be anti-American I was simply stating a fact. Typically the data most people go by on this subject is UNICEF. They really don't have any reason to be biased.

We basically agree though. America ranks very low when it comes to schooling. I will agree that America leads the world in almost all areas in the medical field, and quite a few other fields. That has more to do with our capitalistic society and the fact that there is more money to be made here than anywhere else with said innovations.

DougBushBC 12-04-2009 06:16 PM
Re: WTF is happening to our kids?????
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastietech (Post 668410)
I wasn't trying to be anti-American I was simply stating a fact. Typically the data most people go by on this subject is UNICEF. They really don't have any reason to be biased.
I call BULLSHIT on their lack of bias.


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