Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Only in your mind. :rolleyes:

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Is that what it takes? 500 posts?

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

This one hell of an interesting thread. Well thought out. Local B&M has a $10 cutting fee if you bring your own but if you buy a couple and dont waive your sticks around, they usually tolerate you. Never had a real problem with internet buys. Most smaller stores can't buy the quantity that would make this premise of different qaulity to B&M's versus on line. I have had poorly kept sticks from smaller stores that don't seem to really know how to properly store cigars. One owner told me they move so fast he doesnt worry about storage much. Hmmmm.

I agree that a quality shop makes all the difference. I love going into Holts when I am in Philly. Qaulity stuff, well kept great atmosphere. That being said, when I travel, I always find the local shop and always buy a few sticks.

One point. When I buy on line I always try and let them sit in my coolidor for 30 days. I have been astonished by the difference in letting them settle out. Maybe that is part of the difference you have found.

Great thread.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Indeed ... just like the star wars kid.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

I may have to take Carly Simon's side on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7bVD_DkM4

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

:r

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

I am an off the truck guy. Not a big beleiver in aging. But getting the sticks to where they should be would taxke about a month and what Eddie said about the way the big guys store them.
And I did think about it and when the workers at the factory said "internet cigars" no one asked and specified. Perhaps they meant the internet exclusives that are always so nasty and inconsistant. I asked the guys at the lounge and no one made a distinction. So who knows. I'll find out in may though. I'm very stoked for the trip to Nicaragua.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Gotta link for your lounge? I for one would love to see where you and the guys hang out.

And when are some of the guys gonna sign up? Would be great to have um!

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

www.zarkacigarlounge.com

Check it out very cool.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

A lounge that's on the internet. Now I'm really confused. :r

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Perhaps this means that the cigars they are buying from internet sites and the ones they are purchasing from their internet B+M are in fact the same lesser quality cigars because they save the good stuff for the small B+M's :confused:

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Jealousy is an ugly thing boys.

Not that I blame you. The lounge is great. Largest humi on the west coast. Pool table. Poker tables. 5 large flat panels + xtra large projection. Leather couches and recliners. Perfect balance of being very nice but not uppitty and of course the botl.

So again I understand.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Actually, the lounge looks fantastic, so frankly I am a little jealous.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

and the site hasn't been updated with the bar!!! :al

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

You're quite fortunate to have that kind of a place available to you. Nothing like that here in the Toronto area, that's for sure...

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

:tpd: Nice place for sure.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

This thread has been fun to read. I have a tidbit to throw out as food for thought. My uncle is a fabric purchaser for a dress company in NY. He is responsible for getting the highest quality fabric for the lowest price possible. When necessary, he budges on quality for the price, or budges on price for the quality. His company was recently approached by Wal-Mart. This is a small dress company that makes several thousand dresses a year. Wal-mart, more specifically Sam's Club, asked them to make many many many thousands of dresses just for them. They also said that the dresses had to come in under a certain price. Well for such a large order, the company could afford to make certain accomodations. In order to fill the order on time, and on budget, my uncle had to go for lower quality fabric, in very large quantities. They had to hire new seamstresses, and speed up production across the board to complete the order. The end result was a different quality grade of dress, at a much lower price point, with a happy customer and happy manufacturer. Further down the line, you have shoppers of Sam's Club who get to buy a top notch dress label, for a Sam's Club price.

If a cigar producer that generally makes runs of a few thousand cigars is suddenly asked to make a million, the purchaser and the manufacturer will have to put their heads together and determine how best to accomplish such a feat. Corners can be cut, quality can be lowered. This is ok with both, and its ok with the end of the line customer as well since he gets a lower price.

This does not mean that B&M's are given the high quality stuff, while the internet stores get the crap, it means that the very very large stores will concede to a slightly lower quality to get the inventory they project for sales within the time limit they have set, and at the price the require to attract and satisfy customers while still meeting their bottom line for profit.

There is no conspiracy, its just how it works in some industries. For cigars, I seriously doubt that anyone is trying to dupe anyone by passing of inferior product, but rather some companies, on some orders being willing to take a slightly lower grade product to meet a demand.

Everything postulated above would only apply if the order placed by any particular company exceeded the present capacity of the manufacturer. If the manufacturer was capable of meeting the demand within the customers timeline, then there would be no need for any change. If however, they had to make accomodations to meet the order, that is where you may find a difference. I would guess though, even if such a difference existed, it would take an extremely refined taster to find it, and the primary difference would lie in the construction quality of the cigar since rollers would be asked to work faster to meet a deadline.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

I finally understand your first post. Took a while but now it's clear! :dance:

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Hmm... I don't remember this scene form Office Space... :D

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

how do you think the horses head got into that guys bed in the Godfather??:r:r

http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/godfather_horse.jpg

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Luciuswand you demonstrated the business principle I was trying to convey better than I did. Which is why I'm not a writer I guess. While the parallel may not be exact the principle is the same (hope I used the write principle/principal there. Oh yeah the princiPAL if your friend. Well as long as you weren't bad like me). No conspiracy just business.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Comparing cigar making and dress making is like comparing......well, cigar making and dress making. I understand the concept, but don't believe it applies in the cigar business. :2



Ah, crap....I just whacked the horse again. :r

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

:r:r:r freekin' hilarious Tom.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Does this mean that all real cigar smokers (as opposed to puffers) wear dresses? This could mean that Peter is one of the few real cigar smokers here.:wo

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

I'm not really sorry, I was just being cordial. :D

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

This thread is STILL going? :confused:


I am tempted to turn it political so it gets shut down. :D

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

:tpd: What would O'bama do? ;)

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Their is no apostrophe in Obama, just FYI. :r

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Sorry. I mean Osama. ;)

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

If you go back to the original post.... there could be validity in it.

Say for example a cigar Mfg like Torano who makes cigars for others is commissioned to make a "line" for one of the online guys. Figure the price may come into play there. Lesser value materials used because of the price point demanded. Always wondered what the relationship in the wholesale price was ... Labor vs material costs.

Conversely, the concept of "brand" is pretty important to most manufacturers. Their name is on the darn things. To purposely make a product that varies in quality by where you buy it does not make much sense and is hard to believe from a business owners perspective. Different cigar name band etc sure, but not the identical cigar.

Most cigars are not purchased directly from the manufacturers but through distributors. These distributors are typically the ones setting price points and determining physically which cigars go where.

Maybe the OP just prefers the flavors over humidification provides in most B&M's vs cigars from a home humidor. :D

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Maybe there should be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkw8ip43Vk

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

How dare you criticize The Obamessiah!

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Now that is thinking outside the box. :tu

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

This is a pretty big assumption. In talking with the owner at my lounge. He does get few from distributors but orders from the manufacturer on most. And I believe(at least it would make sense) that the big internet guys do too.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Lets get back to cigars and dresses

http://thumb.visualizeus.com/thumbs/...32833b93_m.jpg

http://69.90.174.247/photos/display_...67243911,1.jpg

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

I wish I could say you were wrong. However, working at a B&M, we order 90% off our stock straight from Avo, LFD, Tatuaje, Oliva, etc. We have a couple of big distributors we deal with i.e. General and Altadis. However, most of our stuff as I said, comes from the companies themselves.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

Why would you whish you could say I was wrong?????!!!!!:confused::confused::confused::fu

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

I heard Romero's thinking of making a movie about this thread...

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

It is no surprise that manufacturers play different segments of the market. Most do. The original postulation was that the exact same brand and type of cigar exists in two quality levels.

Say for a second that Laura SeanGAR sells dressed in Saks for $500 and up and in my boutique at place de vendome for $3000 and up. We make a cheaper line for Sam's with our name, Laura SeanGAR. We're just playing market segmentation. This is not at all the same as if we sold the exact name and model dress at 2 quality levels, one in Saks and one in Sam's for different prices. So I see no relevance here whatsoever.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

This could be the quote of the day! :D

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

We've already established that you wouldn't regardless. You've already stated that you WILL NOT entertain the possibility of this topic being anything but what you think. Regardless of the fact that neither side can be proven. You have made it clear that you have your stance and there is not possibility of any other. Your participation at this point is redundant why read any more posts.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

:confused: I thought your whole point was that it can be proven and you were asking for back-up to the fact besides your B+M friends opinions. Why else would you be asking us and go so far as to ask the manufacturers themselves?

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

My whole point was for a discussion on it. I've been open as far as what the outcome could be, I had my opinion and supported it, but recognized that it was not a provable premise. Certain other posters preferred to fight instead of discuss. To discuss you need to be open to the fact that your opinion may not be correct or you will just fight. My point on the above post was that Seangar in particular has chosen to fight on this matter and not discuss. If that's all you're gonna do post the opinion and move on.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

I think we should just take the internet and take the B&Ms and put them in a royal rumble and let em fight it out! I expect a tough clean fight..manufactures and distributors do not interfere!

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

But it seems you only want to discuss the portions you are comfortable with.

Lets start here:

Say for example a cigar Mfg like Torano who makes cigars for others is commissioned to make a "line" for one of the on line guys. Figure the price may come into play there. Lesser value materials used because of the price point demanded.

Are you willing to accept as fact that cigar manufacturers do make house brand and special release cigars for large customers.. typically the on line guys? They also produce "bundles" for the on line guys to make samplers from. Seen and bought them at Cigars International, Rocky Patel vintage 1992 and 1990 bundles for $ 40. Interesting, you can tell the difference by shape when new as the bundles are very pressed. Boxes on the shelf were over a hundred. Hell many cigar brands have little if any manufacturing capacity and are made to "spec" so to speak. If so, to an extent your original point is made in that there may be different/greater or lessor quality in these cigars. However, they are not identical to the normal lines in representation.

Conversely, the concept of "brand" is pretty important to most manufacturers. Their name is on the darn things. To purposely make a product that varies in quality by where you buy it does not make much sense and is hard to believe from a business owners perspective. Different cigar name band etc sure, but not the identical cigar.

This is where your argument, however interesting, seems to lack substantive motivation for the manufacturer or any proof except for opinion on your part.

Maybe the OP just prefers the flavors over humidification provides in most B&M's vs cigars from a home humidor.

Now to the opinion. :) Seriously and conversely, cigars do not travel well. It may take months for them to acclimate and open up after the traumas of travel. On the flip side, B&M's have a bad rep in terms of stability and correctness of RH. Cigars may be of different ages/provenance and RH storage. If you really want to draw conclusions on potential differences you need to eliminate the potential discrepancies in age, storage conditions and prejudice based upon origin.

Get some cigars at release from both sources. Store them for 3 months in the same place, RH, temperature, etc. Have someone else deband them and put a blank on them A/B, 1/2. Do it for 5 cigars and see what personal observations you can make. Without this commonality the observation on preference is, to me, intriguing but meaningless.

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet
 

If I understand you correctly I agree with you here.



Point taken. My response to this was the tomato argument. While the cigar is the same, same leaves from the same areas, etc. I think we can agree that being a plant there will be some variation within the same leaves and that a professional could tell the difference between great and super great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Klugs (Post 290193) This is where your argument, however interesting, seems to lack substantive motivation for the manufacturer or any proof except for opinion on your part.

the motivation I suggested was:
1. a desire to keep the small guy in business
2. The squeaky wheel syndrome, an owner will notice well before an employee.
3. Cost. On those larger orders being selective is not feasible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Klugs (Post 290193) Maybe the OP just prefers the flavors over humidification provides in most B&M's vs cigars from a home humidor. Now to the opinion. :) Seriously and conversely, cigars do not travel well. It may take months for them to acclimate and open up after the traumas of travel. On the flip side, B&M's have a bad rep in terms of stability and correctness of RH. Cigars may be of different ages/provenance and RH storage. If you really want to draw conclusions on potential differences you need to eliminate the potential discrepancies in age, storage conditions and prejudice based upon origin. Get some cigars at release from both sources. Store them for 3 months in the same place, RH, temperature, etc. Have someone else deband them and put a blank on them A/B, 1/2. Do it for your 5 favorite cigars and see what personal observations you can make. Without this commonality the observation on preference is, to me, intriguing but meaningless.

I agree wholeheartedly that I might be 100% wrong on this. As I stated, it was a phenomenon noticed by us and others I've talked to, supported by some statements from workers in Honduras and Dominican Republic. I think I have addressed everything and not avoided anything, If I have it was subconscious and/or unintentional.