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Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
Brad, to me that read "If the voters want a real football game, looking at this with their eyes wide open, it is a no brainer, LSU vs Alabama. If the voters want to appease fans of other conferences, squinting into thinking there is a team as good as either Alabama or LSU. Maybe giving some backlash to the "SEC, SEC, SEC" group think, then maybe they'll vote someone else gets in.":r:r
Apparently I am reading into the comments way too much, I apologize. |
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I don't bring in the PAC12 because Stanford didn't win it and Oregon already lost to LSU... I will also not bring into the discussion 2 loss teams, if everyone was 2 loss, but 'Bama....a rematch would be okay. Things I do know. I know Alabama had their shot, at home, and lost...and IMO, with other deserving teams(I think OSU is one), they should not get a do-over. The regular season is the playoff we have in football. Again, I think LSU is the cream of the crop and I don't think anyone will beat them....but they have to play the game and someone else should be given the chance. Am late to go herf.....but have more thoughts..... |
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YOU are arrogant sir!!! You know how I know?? I agree with everything you say, lol. :r
I want to see LSU-OK St. in the Champ. and Alabama vs Boise/Stanford in some other bowl. At the risk of acting like I am teaching people football/BCS, I will say that I know this because in the end, it's all about the money. Fox would step in and say "Hold it, you give us LSU and Bama in two DIFFERENT games and I will show you two blockbuster ratings creators. Without that, ehh, who knows what people will watch." What you want to do with the results (co-champs etc) is up to you. FOLLOW THE MONEY this time around, boys.. |
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I hate Craig James, but he's right.....
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Done Deal. LSU-BAMA! Bring It On! :banger
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I'm excited :tu
I guess the only way to have an SEC team lose in the national title game is to have two of 'em play each other |
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I have to disagree strongly with what the OkSt coach said about what the fans want to see. He said something to the tune that the fans want to see a 36-35 National championship game, not a 6-3 game. If Oklahoma State played LSU in the game, it would be a 45-3 game (LSU winning), not a 36-35 game!!! What was he thinking about!!:D |
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See....SEC...SEC...SEC.....:r |
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SEC....SEC....SEC.... |
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The thing to take away from today's selection is that there's obviously a struggle for all other conferences to have relevancy against the dominance of the SEC lately. (And to all of you nay-sayers, it doesn't matter at this point, the chips have fallen and make no mistake, there WILL BE a national champion from the SEC this season) So for those who want to see more than one conference playing for the title... having someone like Urban Meyer go into the Big Ten is not a bad thing. However, I think there are plenty of great coaches outside the SEC. For the SEC, it's a chance to prove (or further prove) that it's perhaps not the coaches that make the difference, but our culture. |
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Christ, you SEC, SEC, SEC guys act like you have had a grip hold on College football for decades....:rolleyes:
You're on a Hell or a roll, no doubt. But your arrogance over a little roll is amusing at best and irritating at worst.... Tides will turn, they always do.... Enjoy it. |
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is up for another butt-whippin in a month. It really is hilarious to watch. They don't recognize themselves in the mirror. They ignore me and call me irrational because I cheer for the Purple and Gold and believed them to be the best team in the country from week 1. Now in week 14, when no one in the country can argue, they simply choose to tune it all out..lalala, lalala. 2nd place in the country just isn't good enough when they are behind the cretins of LSU. Now for a month it's going to be "oh, you'll see, you guys escaped with a narrow victory but WE were really the best team." Then they come into New Orleans and get it AGAIN. MUCH longer ride home for contemplation this second time, boys. But like I said, a mirror. Fan is abbreviation for fanatic. You folks are no better or worse than me. So for the one that speaks in code, it has to be about character of the players. ONE character-istic we have that will show itself is skillz. |
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What's worst about the post above is how he characterizes arguing here. NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE BCS
has there been as much to argue about, plenty of opportunity for lively discussion and good-natured ribbing. But again, it's lalala, lalala, I can't hear you. They feel preyed upon by me because I argue and contest, it's SO completely weak. If this was the other way around, it would likely be different. They would be contesting points and making their arguments. It's like it's ONLY fun one way for them. Weak. Greg Longknocker at least plays along. But they turn the best cigar forum in the world into what would appear to be every other forum on the net by their lack of any sense of what is good-natured ribbing and what is not. I get worked up about it too, but I don't pick up my ball and go home and pout. When this was LSU and FLA, they all played along and had "fun". What is it about this one group in particular? Is it the start of the season and your own belief that THIS was going to be the year for the Tide? Did Auburn's championship wound in some way that has set you against the world so firmly. I know, you say no, it's just LSU (fans) we hate, and you are a perfect example. BS. That's how you COVER IT up. But that's not IT. Weak. Of course one or more of them won't see this, cause they ignore me. It's college sports, get over it. That's what this thread is FOR, arguing, discussing, bantering, joshing, betting......weak. |
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is where I differ with you. The Cowboys can't 'compete' with LSU in the strictest sense of the word, it's just a foregone drubbing, in my SEC-minded opinion. But I 'argued' long and hard here that they deserved the right to HAVE their a$$ whipped in public due to their valorous effort against Oklahoma and the fact that everything but the ethereal computer formulae showed they were a better alternative than a rematch of two teams likely to bore the US to death on championship night. I AM A HOMER, so you can argue that the Cowboys might well win in NO, but now we will never get to know. EVEN MY valid argument that the better option would have been for the two "top" teams to play a 3 and a 4 would have made MUCH better television can't save us from the system we have in place and the game we will be forced to watch. But I don't think Standord, OK St, Houston, Southern Miss, Boise St..none of em could beat LSU or Bama. But it'd be nice to give them the shot I think they deserve. And WTF happened with Boise St??? Las Vegas Bowl???? weak. |
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The highlighted in red was what I was responding to. |
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I went to the BCS thread to play....we can continue over there, including my responding to this post. It is apparent that since I don't have the group think, my thoughts are not welcome here....:r:r:r (If I could put into words how much amusement that brings me, it would lighten all your hearts) |
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Jeremy..... As we discussed, I went back and did a little research. In the weeks that they played.... Per Coach's poll: Both Bama and Oklahoma State played 4 Top-25 ranked teams each. Alabama played against 20, 12, 12 and # 1 ranked teams. Ok St played a 8, 21, 12 and 11. These were using the Coaches poll placement at the start of each game.
So, AT THE TIME of each game, both Bama and Ok St each played four top 25 ranked teams. And Ok St only played the fourth ranked team because of their conference championship game. Bama lost to undefeated No. 1 ranked LSU at the time of the loss. Ok St lost to un-ranked Iowa State, who had a record of 5-4 going into the game. Just thought you'd find the data interesting, and sets record straight as to how many "ranked" teams each of these two played. |
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This whole BCS argument that's been raging here spurs a very old memory of mine: When I was a kid, like 6-7 years old, I did not like even the thought of getting shots/immunizations. I would kick and scream and pitch a holy fit. But you know what happened in the end? Big people held me down and I got the shot anyway. Just saying... seems relevant here. |
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..................................... I was right, they did follow you, hahaha. |
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Teams like Florida were ranked on expectations near the beginning of the season and beat teams that everyone else beat soundly up to that point and for the rest of the year. UT couldn't catch a break and people ranked UF highly on expectations and pity it seemed like until people just realized they were NOT a standard Florida team. Bama played two good SEC teams and 6 pushover SEC teams and 3 NC pushovers. Vandy played better than they have in decades but still didn't have enough juice to be called a big threat to Alabama. This is not me saying bama sucks, LSU is No.1, this is me saying if you are going to stand up and say bama should be playing LSU and NOT OK St., then at least use some kind of real numbers. And if you are going to throw in "OK St. only played the 4th team because of the conference championship game, then say that in front of a mirror first and listen to how it sounds. Bama didn't win it's division OR conference championship. I'd call the Uof OK win a HELL of a win and a HELL of a factor. Of course your point could be that they got an extra game to rack up a top 25 win, Bama didn't... but you PLAY HARD AND TAKE a berth in the conf champ, you don't get handed free stuff cause 'this is your year'. ---edit--- and I understand your point, but this is a mid-season point, this shouldn't be allowed at season's end. It's fun to look back and make notes and gather data but this is hardly useful at this late date. To make my point, the computer rankings for the title week compilation likely do NOT take any of this into consideration. This is just like the RPI, if Memphis beats Tennessee in Basketball and UT is ranked #2 pre-season, Memphis has to PRAY that they keep being awesome or their RPI plummets when they get shown for what they really are. |
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No need, I was simply answering your question. I guess you are not one of the ones ignoring me, lol.
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As to the culture of the Southeastern US, football is an integral part of it. It is woven into the fabric of our existence nearly from birth in most states below the Mason-Dixon line (Sometimes even from CONCEPTION. I for one have seen baby nurseries painted in team color). I won't speak for the cultures of Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee, but as for the football culture in the state Alabama, I think anyone who has ever worn Crimson and White or Burnt Orange and Blue would happily inform you about said culture. (I'm sure even our Division II Team from UNA in Florence, AL might have some input, or perhaps Troy University further south) However, being a subjective matter and one of personal taste I will leave that up to you to figure out. I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter. |
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Nick Saban was brought in to completely change the culture of Alabama football from one of losing and scandal to one of winning and goodness and character. I only remember it because while he was forcing that down my throat, he was calling my preferred team a bunch of criminals and thugs that he predicted "would turn out as losers in life." ---edit---and were a stain on the SEC, the 2011 season, and any hopes we might have of him watching either the championship game or the NCG in February. (eyeroll) |
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thing without a doubt for WELL over a century, and that is that no matter how bad the teams were losing, they never failed to sell out their venues. In LA there IS a culture. Not only do we compete on very even turf against FL and TX for best football players in the country, but our fans never give up. The Saints were, as Howard Cosell once put it on Monday Night Football as I sat and watched, the 'galvanized garbage can of the N--F--L...", and their fans NEVER gave up being behind the team. Even the AINTS bagheads displayed their bags from fairly good seats in the dome. You can't win a football culture argument in Louisiana. I will let the Crimson Elephants defend their own team, because they don't listen to me anyway. |
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Take Arkansas, Florida and South Carolina for example. They each have had a long history of mediocrity at some point in their program's past. Yet the culture of football in these regions still demanded better play/coaching until they stumbled upon or hired one. This doesn't stem originally from a tradition of winning, but from something more intrinsic. Once these schools have a taste of winning, however, then you get even higher expectations. For what it's worth, thats how I perceive how SEC culture shapes programs :2 |
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Well, I have to agree with Brad (can only see his post because of a quote). But he is 100% correct, and 100% got what Jeremy was referring to about our culture of football.
That culture is built from the ground up, from pee-wee thru high school and in our colleges. Let's pick another school, if it appears that we are zeroing in on only Bama and LSU. Tennessee. MY GOD! Have they suffered problems over the last decade or more (including coach issues)!! That doesn't stop them from filling their HUGE stadium! Or supporting their team. My wife worked in Knoxville last football season. Every Saturday of a home game, that town was full, and rocking! How about Vandy??? They are always the butt of jokes, but they are still well supported every year and always strive to win games. Kentucky, known for basketball, still competes with intense rivalries. The same can be said for Ole Miss, Miss State, UNA, Georgia Southern, South Carolina, Florida, UAB and on and on. The south DOES NOT (currently) support youth teams very much in anything other than football, and baseball. No hockey, some basketball, but nowhere near as deeply as football. Some soccer (more now than when Ninja was in school, bit still very small percentages). From 6 years old (and younger), they thrive on FOOTBALL. I have a 9 year old nephew that I would easily put up against Brad or E.J. in terms of football knowledge and savvy. He beats me hands down. And he isn't alone, by any means. Football, probably more so than any other sport is lived and breathed from the womb to the grave as THE main sport in the south. Is it the lack of other sports played? Is it a culture thing that allows us to battle each other on a field instead of in the hollows and dells with guns?? Who can say. But it IS a culture of the sport. The coaches come and go. The players come and go. The awards and Championships come and go. But maybe they come more often because it is deeply supported and enjoyed. That is football culture! That is the "culture of football" that Jeremy is referring to. And that culture falls all the way down to the pee-wee level. Go to any Bama (and Louisiana) high school football game and tell them it is only about having winning coaches and programs! Good luck with that!! And to top it all off, in support of the culture...... Was there any other conference thread on the forum with this much fervor?? I think not. |
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Stephen, it seems your argument preculdes itself. Because without the support of "dyed-in-the-wool fanbases", alumni, and monetary boosters, no such a top flight coach would employed (or employed for long) by a school and therefore the top flight talent you speak of would not follow as you detailed. I'm sorry my friend, but this sport starts with the support of the fans, and it is from those basic building blocks that championship teams are born. Ticket sales, donations and booster money are what draw coaches, top flight players, and championships. All pieces of the puzzle are important and it takes "the perfect storm", if you will, of all of them at once: broad fanbase, talented coaches, and talented players to cultivate a championship. But no piece is more integral to that equation as the culture of football within a given fanbase. Again, I think that you would be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football is predicated by the arrival of ANY coach ANYwhere. The flames of support may be fanned so to speak, but regardless, the fire comes from the so-called "rabid fandom". It is predicated on the fans supporting football. The arrival of a great coach or a top flight player or a championship is the direct result of the football culture of the region/area of interest. A coach may inspire a fanbase with great wins, and great players may endear themselves with memorable plays and performances, but they are all lost without the fans. In each of the schools you mentioned above, it was not some invisible force that propelled those schools to hire great coaches. It was the desire in the fanbase (born through their football culture) to see the once great teams return to greatness. |
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Sorry about that. |
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