Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Brad, to me that read "If the voters want a real football game, looking at this with their eyes wide open, it is a no brainer, LSU vs Alabama. If the voters want to appease fans of other conferences, squinting into thinking there is a team as good as either Alabama or LSU. Maybe giving some backlash to the "SEC, SEC, SEC" group think, then maybe they'll vote someone else gets in.":r:r

Apparently I am reading into the comments way too much, I apologize.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Alabama is a great team, there is no doubt about that. But I cannot honestly say that I think Alabama is better than Oklahoma State, nor can I say that I think that Oklahoma State is better than Alabama. Hell, I couldn't say it about USC over either of them either(if they could play).... Hell, I didn't think OSU would go blow the pants off OU last night....it is why we play these games.

I don't bring in the PAC12 because Stanford didn't win it and Oregon already lost to LSU... I will also not bring into the discussion 2 loss teams, if everyone was 2 loss, but 'Bama....a rematch would be okay.

Things I do know. I know Alabama had their shot, at home, and lost...and IMO, with other deserving teams(I think OSU is one), they should not get a do-over. The regular season is the playoff we have in football.

Again, I think LSU is the cream of the crop and I don't think anyone will beat them....but they have to play the game and someone else should be given the chance.


Am late to go herf.....but have more thoughts.....

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

YOU are arrogant sir!!! You know how I know?? I agree with everything you say, lol. :r
I want to see LSU-OK St. in the Champ. and Alabama vs Boise/Stanford in some other bowl.
At the risk of acting like I am teaching people football/BCS, I will say that I know this because
in the end, it's all about the money. Fox would step in and say "Hold it, you give us LSU and Bama
in two DIFFERENT games and I will show you two blockbuster ratings creators. Without that, ehh,
who knows what people will watch." What you want to do with the results (co-champs etc) is up to you.
FOLLOW THE MONEY this time around, boys..

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

My Man.....:tu

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I hate Craig James, but he's right.....

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Done Deal. LSU-BAMA! Bring It On! :banger

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I'm excited :tu

I guess the only way to have an SEC team lose in the national title game is to have two of 'em play each other

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Good Point, Mike! :tu Think I'll Smoke A Padron'26 To Celebrate! Roll, Tide! :D

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

And now, the Big 10 doesn't have to worry about looking like weaklings in another national championship game against the SEC!!

I have to disagree strongly with what the OkSt coach said about what the fans want to see. He said something to the tune that the fans want to see a 36-35 National championship game, not a 6-3 game. If Oklahoma State played LSU in the game, it would be a 45-3 game (LSU winning), not a 36-35 game!!! What was he thinking about!!:D

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

True! :D

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

The Big10 was never considered as far as a BCS Championship Game participant.....:rolleyes:

See....SEC...SEC...SEC.....:r

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I know that.... Duh... But the point is made as stated!!! It could also apply to the OkSt, but the Big Ten was in that situation several times in the past several years. Which WAS the point. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

So you were just bringing up 2007(Jan 2008)....4 years ago, the last time it was relevant?????:confused:


SEC....SEC....SEC....

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I think the point is that the Big Ten is irrelevant.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I can agree with that.... Though I honestly believe that Urban Meyer will change that quickly, to my dismay....

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Well, I think that may be a good thing for the NCAA as a whole... assuming he is successful.

The thing to take away from today's selection is that there's obviously a struggle for all other conferences to have relevancy against the dominance of the SEC lately. (And to all of you nay-sayers, it doesn't matter at this point, the chips have fallen and make no mistake, there WILL BE a national champion from the SEC this season)

So for those who want to see more than one conference playing for the title... having someone like Urban Meyer go into the Big Ten is not a bad thing. However, I think there are plenty of great coaches outside the SEC. For the SEC, it's a chance to prove (or further prove) that it's perhaps not the coaches that make the difference, but our culture.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Christ, you SEC, SEC, SEC guys act like you have had a grip hold on College football for decades....:rolleyes:

You're on a Hell or a roll, no doubt. But your arrogance over a little roll is amusing at best and irritating at worst....

Tides will turn, they always do.... Enjoy it.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Simply stating that the SEC has had a dominant role in the NCAA for the past few years makes me neither arrogant, or incorrect.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Okay...yes, I can see how all other conferences having relevance or even trying to compete, well....there should probably be the SEC....SEC....SEC....and then D2.....:r:r:r

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Not sure I'm following you here, what are you trying to say?

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Bye bye! Already have one ignored one on this thread. Let's just make it two. Don't argue with him, Ninja. He is just like Another here in that he wants to argue just to argue. Not worth the trouble. Arguing just to be arguing.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Just ignore him. He hasn't been rational for weeks. He only has new life now on the news that his team
is up for another butt-whippin in a month. It really is hilarious to watch. They don't recognize themselves
in the mirror. They ignore me and call me irrational because I cheer for the Purple and Gold and believed
them to be the best team in the country from week 1. Now in week 14, when no one in the country can
argue, they simply choose to tune it all out..lalala, lalala. 2nd place in the country just isn't good enough
when they are behind the cretins of LSU. Now for a month it's going to be "oh, you'll see, you guys escaped
with a narrow victory but WE were really the best team." Then they come into New Orleans and get it AGAIN.
MUCH longer ride home for contemplation this second time, boys.

But like I said, a mirror. Fan is abbreviation for fanatic. You folks are no better or worse than me. So for
the one that speaks in code, it has to be about character of the players. ONE character-istic we have that
will show itself is skillz.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

What's worst about the post above is how he characterizes arguing here. NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE BCS
has there been as much to argue about, plenty of opportunity for lively discussion and good-natured ribbing. But again,
it's lalala, lalala, I can't hear you. They feel preyed upon by me because I argue and contest, it's SO completely
weak. If this was the other way around, it would likely be different. They would be contesting points and making
their arguments. It's like it's ONLY fun one way for them. Weak. Greg Longknocker at least plays along. But they
turn the best cigar forum in the world into what would appear to be every other forum on the net by their lack of any
sense of what is good-natured ribbing and what is not. I get worked up about it too, but I don't pick up my ball
and go home and pout. When this was LSU and FLA, they all played along and had "fun". What is it about
this one group in particular? Is it the start of the season and your own belief that THIS was going to be the year
for the Tide? Did Auburn's championship wound in some way that has set you against the world so firmly. I know,
you say no, it's just LSU (fans) we hate, and you are a perfect example. BS. That's how you COVER IT up. But
that's not IT. Weak. Of course one or more of them won't see this, cause they ignore me. It's college sports,
get over it. That's what this thread is FOR, arguing, discussing, bantering, joshing, betting......weak.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I understand your point, fine, EJ, but I would say one thing from the heart, though, and the word 'compete'
is where I differ with you. The Cowboys can't 'compete' with LSU in the strictest sense of the word,
it's just a foregone drubbing, in my SEC-minded opinion. But I 'argued' long and hard here that they
deserved the right to HAVE their a$$ whipped in public due to their valorous effort against Oklahoma
and the fact that everything but the ethereal computer formulae showed they were a better alternative
than a rematch of two teams likely to bore the US to death on championship night. I AM A HOMER, so you
can argue that the Cowboys might well win in NO, but now we will never get to know. EVEN MY valid argument
that the better option would have been for the two "top" teams to play a 3 and a 4 would have made MUCH
better television can't save us from the system we have in place and the game we will be forced to watch.
But I don't think Standord, OK St, Houston, Southern Miss, Boise St..none of em could beat LSU or Bama.
But it'd be nice to give them the shot I think they deserve. And WTF happened with Boise St???
Las Vegas Bowl???? weak.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

So that is how it works.....:r Personally, I thought I came in here with some good discussion, some numbers to back up my point/thoughts ect.... If I appear to be arguing just to argue, that was not the intent. Admittedly, the response to you had no point, other than to point out you were talking rubbish. What, you've brought up "the BIG10" and then "asking others not to play with the guy that doesn't think like you do....that will make him go away" Honestly, from what I have seen from you so far, it may be best if you did just ignore me.... It seems pretty clear that you'd probably be out of your league....so to speak.... ;)





The highlighted in red was what I was responding to.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Brad,

I went to the BCS thread to play....we can continue over there, including my responding to this post. It is apparent that since I don't have the group think, my thoughts are not welcome here....:r:r:r (If I could put into words how much amusement that brings me, it would lighten all your hearts)

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Is they, me?

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I understand what your response was in regards to. It's the content of your reply that I'm not following you on. Is it to refute the dominance of the SEC in recent years? Or are you saying that all other conferences should be relegated to playing in Division II? That's where I'm confused.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Jeremy..... As we discussed, I went back and did a little research. In the weeks that they played.... Per Coach's poll: Both Bama and Oklahoma State played 4 Top-25 ranked teams each. Alabama played against 20, 12, 12 and # 1 ranked teams. Ok St played a 8, 21, 12 and 11. These were using the Coaches poll placement at the start of each game.

So, AT THE TIME of each game, both Bama and Ok St each played four top 25 ranked teams. And Ok St only played the fourth ranked team because of their conference championship game.

Bama lost to undefeated No. 1 ranked LSU at the time of the loss. Ok St lost to un-ranked Iowa State, who had a record of 5-4 going into the game. Just thought you'd find the data interesting, and sets record straight as to how many "ranked" teams each of these two played.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Doesn't matter too much either way.

This whole BCS argument that's been raging here spurs a very old memory of mine:

When I was a kid, like 6-7 years old, I did not like even the thought of getting shots/immunizations. I would kick and scream and pitch a holy fit. But you know what happened in the end? Big people held me down and I got the shot anyway. Just saying... seems relevant here.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

:r:r:r

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

They indicates more than one.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Don't worry, 'they' will follow you, lol. Until you agree with them, they will hound you...or I will hound them for the same reason.
.....................................

I was right, they did follow you, hahaha.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

This is a pretty weak argument. This is like saying I am 30 years old because I used to be 30.
Teams like Florida were ranked on expectations near the beginning of the season and beat teams
that everyone else beat soundly up to that point and for the rest of the year. UT couldn't catch
a break and people ranked UF highly on expectations and pity it seemed like until people just realized they
were NOT a standard Florida team. Bama played two good SEC teams and 6 pushover SEC teams and
3 NC pushovers. Vandy played better than they have in decades but still didn't have enough juice
to be called a big threat to Alabama.
This is not me saying bama sucks, LSU is No.1, this is me saying if you are going to stand up and say bama
should be playing LSU and NOT OK St., then at least use some kind of real numbers. And if you are going
to throw in "OK St. only played the 4th team because of the conference championship game, then say that
in front of a mirror first and listen to how it sounds. Bama didn't win it's division OR conference championship.
I'd call the Uof OK win a HELL of a win and a HELL of a factor.

Of course your point could be that they got an extra game to rack up a top 25 win, Bama didn't...
but you PLAY HARD AND TAKE a berth in the conf champ, you don't get handed free stuff
cause 'this is your year'. ---edit--- and I understand your point, but this is a mid-season point,
this shouldn't be allowed at season's end. It's fun to look back and make notes and gather data
but this is hardly useful at this late date. To make my point, the computer rankings for the title
week compilation likely do NOT take any of this into consideration. This is just like the RPI, if
Memphis beats Tennessee in Basketball and UT is ranked #2 pre-season, Memphis has to PRAY
that they keep being awesome or their RPI plummets when they get shown for what they really are.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Well, I thought about it, and I can't let you have all the fun. Plus, I learn a lot from you. I'll see if I can round up the others for story time.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

No need, I was simply answering your question. I guess you are not one of the ones ignoring me, lol.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Don't mean to interrupt your homering, but the Big XII doesn't have a Conference Championship game. Bedlam's been played for over a 100 years now. Carry on.:tu

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)? Further, where's the, "culture" now at Florida without Urban Meyer? Is all the, "culture" dried up in Knoxville, too?

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Culture? You know we're a bunch of inbred hicks. We ain't never had no culturing. :r

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Stephen, I think you misunderstand my statement. The point that was being made is there are plenty of great coaches outside of the SEC. And I think that Urban Meyer is a prime example of a great coach that doesn't matter where he goes, will impact a team, conference and potentially all of college football. The distinction I was trying to make however is that perhaps there is more to winning championships than simply having a good head coach. (Ahem, Charlie Weiss, Dennis Erickson, Dave Wandstedt, the list goes on.)

As to the culture of the Southeastern US, football is an integral part of it. It is woven into the fabric of our existence nearly from birth in most states below the Mason-Dixon line (Sometimes even from CONCEPTION. I for one have seen baby nurseries painted in team color).

I won't speak for the cultures of Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee, but as for the football culture in the state Alabama, I think anyone who has ever worn Crimson and White or Burnt Orange and Blue would happily inform you about said culture. (I'm sure even our Division II Team from UNA in Florence, AL might have some input, or perhaps Troy University further south) However, being a subjective matter and one of personal taste I will leave that up to you to figure out. I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I said exactly the same thing in so many words over on the BCS thread at nearly the same time in response to another question :tu

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Framed within the context of your statement, I am talking about culture = victories and/or Championships. Sure, the dyed-in-the-wool fanbases go back generations. The winning, however, doesn't happen until the program acquires a top flight coach that in turn brings in top flight talent. How many times have we seen this happen over the last 15 years in college football? USC was floundering before Carroll, Oklahoma before Stoops, Texas before Brown, LSU and Alabama before Saban.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I know you are not HE, but there was another diehard homer in this thread that said quite the opposite.
Nick Saban was brought in to completely change the culture of Alabama football from one of losing and
scandal to one of winning and goodness and character. I only remember it because while he was forcing
that down my throat, he was calling my preferred team a bunch of criminals and thugs that he predicted
"would turn out as losers in life." ---edit---and were a stain on the SEC, the 2011 season, and any hopes
we might have of him watching either the championship game or the NCG in February. (eyeroll)

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Odd that you would highlight those two teams, and especially LSU. LSU and Bama have had one
thing without a doubt for WELL over a century, and that is that no matter how bad the teams were losing,
they never failed to sell out their venues. In LA there IS a culture. Not only do we compete on very
even turf against FL and TX for best football players in the country, but our fans never give up.
The Saints were, as Howard Cosell once put it on Monday Night Football as I sat and watched,
the 'galvanized garbage can of the N--F--L...", and their fans NEVER gave up being behind the team.
Even the AINTS bagheads displayed their bags from fairly good seats in the dome.
You can't win a football culture argument in Louisiana. I will let the Crimson Elephants defend their own
team, because they don't listen to me anyway.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I'm talking about the culture of winning, Brad. Rabid fandom has always run rampant in places that we're discussing. My argument, however, is that this, "culture" doesn't manifest itself in the win column like ninjavanish put forth, especially in lieu of a good/great coach (because with good coaches come good recruits).

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

An interesting, historical perspective!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vid...ted/index.html

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

I think what Ninjavanish perhaps is arguing, and that I would as well, is that the culture of the SEC is directly correlated to schools getting good coaches, which then bring in good recruits and win. It is the culture of SEC schools and their fans to set such high standards and demands that a coaching carosel ensues into a winner is found.
Take Arkansas, Florida and South Carolina for example. They each have had a long history of mediocrity at some point in their program's past. Yet the culture of football in these regions still demanded better play/coaching until they stumbled upon or hired one.
This doesn't stem originally from a tradition of winning, but from something more intrinsic. Once these schools have a taste of winning, however, then you get even higher expectations.

For what it's worth, thats how I perceive how SEC culture shapes programs :2

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Well, I have to agree with Brad (can only see his post because of a quote). But he is 100% correct, and 100% got what Jeremy was referring to about our culture of football.

That culture is built from the ground up, from pee-wee thru high school and in our colleges. Let's pick another school, if it appears that we are zeroing in on only Bama and LSU. Tennessee. MY GOD! Have they suffered problems over the last decade or more (including coach issues)!! That doesn't stop them from filling their HUGE stadium! Or supporting their team. My wife worked in Knoxville last football season. Every Saturday of a home game, that town was full, and rocking! How about Vandy??? They are always the butt of jokes, but they are still well supported every year and always strive to win games. Kentucky, known for basketball, still competes with intense rivalries. The same can be said for Ole Miss, Miss State, UNA, Georgia Southern, South Carolina, Florida, UAB and on and on.

The south DOES NOT (currently) support youth teams very much in anything other than football, and baseball. No hockey, some basketball, but nowhere near as deeply as football. Some soccer (more now than when Ninja was in school, bit still very small percentages). From 6 years old (and younger), they thrive on FOOTBALL. I have a 9 year old nephew that I would easily put up against Brad or E.J. in terms of football knowledge and savvy. He beats me hands down. And he isn't alone, by any means. Football, probably more so than any other sport is lived and breathed from the womb to the grave as THE main sport in the south. Is it the lack of other sports played? Is it a culture thing that allows us to battle each other on a field instead of in the hollows and dells with guns?? Who can say. But it IS a culture of the sport. The coaches come and go. The players come and go. The awards and Championships come and go. But maybe they come more often because it is deeply supported and enjoyed. That is football culture! That is the "culture of football" that Jeremy is referring to. And that culture falls all the way down to the pee-wee level. Go to any Bama (and Louisiana) high school football game and tell them it is only about having winning coaches and programs! Good luck with that!!

And to top it all off, in support of the culture...... Was there any other conference thread on the forum with this much fervor?? I think not.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Stephen, it seems your argument preculdes itself. Because without the support of "dyed-in-the-wool fanbases", alumni, and monetary boosters, no such a top flight coach would employed (or employed for long) by a school and therefore the top flight talent you speak of would not follow as you detailed. I'm sorry my friend, but this sport starts with the support of the fans, and it is from those basic building blocks that championship teams are born. Ticket sales, donations and booster money are what draw coaches, top flight players, and championships. All pieces of the puzzle are important and it takes "the perfect storm", if you will, of all of them at once: broad fanbase, talented coaches, and talented players to cultivate a championship. But no piece is more integral to that equation as the culture of football within a given fanbase. Again, I think that you would be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football is predicated by the arrival of ANY coach ANYwhere. The flames of support may be fanned so to speak, but regardless, the fire comes from the so-called "rabid fandom". It is predicated on the fans supporting football. The arrival of a great coach or a top flight player or a championship is the direct result of the football culture of the region/area of interest. A coach may inspire a fanbase with great wins, and great players may endear themselves with memorable plays and performances, but they are all lost without the fans.

In each of the schools you mentioned above, it was not some invisible force that propelled those schools to hire great coaches. It was the desire in the fanbase (born through their football culture) to see the once great teams return to greatness.

Re: Official SEC Football Thread 2011
 

Wow, reading over this post again later, IT IS SO REDUNDANT.

Sorry about that.